2" lift with 3" extended ARB links ?

[Shayne]

2" brings it back to factory spec but 3" should allow a bit more travel , can anyone think of a down side ?

I should add this is front end IFS

 

[Beau]

If you want more travel, why not make up some disconnect drop links so when you go off road you detach them, and once your back on tarmac you pop them back in. Popular mod for 4runners over here that go off roading, as it's best of both words.

 

[Shayne]

I seen them for sale on Oz ebay for the 90 Beau , about $300 which is what got me thinking about it . I can picture my own version going rusty quite quickly then it struck me to use standard links and just weld a bit of flat bar on the ends of the sway bar .

I have searched for some sense on the web from guys that lower their cars , its mostly unhelpful but in general it seems only those that have to shorten the links because they simply won't fit do .

I have never felt compromised by lack of travel and standard length is likely better than i have now but then i thought an extra inch allows a little more travel before the bar takes strain so why not .

I'm just struggling to get my head around it because i don't want to do it twice , why can't i find someone else who has done it is the main concern i suppose ?

 

[StarCruiser]

The link length will make no difference Shayne. If the wheel is attached both ends to the ARB it's still attached. With disconnects you free off each wheel to rise and fall independently. In standard form the ARB will be able to cope with both wheels moving in tandem (as in when the car is lifted on a two post car ramp) to both extents of the shock absorber which then forms the top and bottom limits of travel. this would happen at both link lengths but you would be hanging the ARB ends and links further down and likely to be damaged with no benefit. Unless of course the ARB hits because of your lift. In which case they would need extending to stop the ARB hitting.

 

[clivehorridge]

The link length will make no difference Shayne. If the wheel is attached both ends to the ARB it's still attached. With disconnects you free off each wheel to rise and fall independently. In standard form the ARB will be able to cope with both wheels moving in tandem (as in when the car is lifted on a two post car ramp) to both extents of the shock absorber which then forms the top and bottom limits of travel. this would happen at both link lengths but you would be hanging the ARB ends and links further down and likely to be damaged with no benefit. Unless of course the ARB hits because of your lift. In which case they would need extending to stop the ARB hitting.

I think the last part of your post is the relevant bit Rich, it was certainly my concern when lifting the 80. By lifting, the ARB is rotated upwards at the chassis mounts, and the intention of extending the links is to attempt to put the ARB back in the position it was in prior to the lift.

 

[Shayne]

If you imagine the arb is like a bow and the links are the bow string , when you lift you are pulling on the string adding tension to the bow that's why +2" suspension always calls for +2" links because it puts the arb back where Toyota wanted it so there's nothing new in my thinking .

What i'm questioning is why not put slack in the string by adding an extra inch to the arb link ?

What i'm thinking is as a result one wheel would have be on a pavement before factory spec tension in the bow was reached .

(the bar does flex several inches anyway)

 

[clivehorridge]

If you imagine the arb is like a bow and the links are the bow string , when you lift you are pulling on the string adding tension to the bow that's why +2" suspension always calls for +2" links because it puts the arb back where Toyota wanted it so there's nothing new in my thinking .

What i'm questioning is why not put slack in the string by adding an extra inch to the arb link ?

What i'm thinking is as a result one wheel would have be on a pavement before factory spec tension in the bow was reached .

(the bar does flex several inches anyway)

I'm not sure of the relevance of my next comment, but by lifting the suspension, you don't put any tension on the ARB, you simply rotate it about its mountings.

The only time the ARB does anything is when the two wheels attached to it are at different heights compared with the chassis, and this is the only time there's tension in the "bow" whereby the ARB is trying to bring both wheels back into verical similarity.

When lifting, the ARB rotates, so there may be a tendency for it to foul on something when it does get tensioned, that would be the only time when extending the links equally would revert the ARB back to its original position, i.e. one that does not foul anything.

 

[MarkW]

ARB's work the same as a Torsion Bar suspension set ups so its the twist in the ARB that limits body roll rather than a bend in it like a bow

 

[Shayne]

I lowered the bar mounts to bring my arb back into spec but i feel my bow is already loaded and ready to fire - lift the opposite wheel in sympathy . Maybe its just the heavy duty suspension i opted for

Disconnects are no good because i have gotten to know the driver well enough over the years to know he will remember to disconnect only after all the obstacles have been passed and remember he hasn't reconnected when doing about 90mph on a motorway

I don't know i just get the feeling there is more to the dynamics than twisting the bar - the length of the lever that does the twisting for instance ????

I guess its one of those trail and error suck it and see things but it would be nice to find a compromise and nobody as yet has warned against the extra length .

 

[clivehorridge]

I lowered the bar mounts to bring my arb back into spec but i feel my bow is already loaded and ready to fire - lift the opposite wheel in sympathy . Maybe its just the heavy duty suspension i opted for

Disconnects are no good because i have gotten to know the driver well enough over the years to know he will remember to disconnect only after all the obstacles have been passed and remember he hasn't reconnected when doing about 90mph on a motorway

I don't know i just get the feeling there is more to the dynamics than twisting the bar - the length of the lever that does the twisting for instance ????

I guess its one of those trail and error suck it and see things but it would be nice to find a compromise and nobody as yet has warned against the extra length .

The links won't be contributing to the effective moment of the torsion bar, that will be set by the "U" dimensions of the ARB. The links simply attach the ends of the ARB to the wheels.

If you're getting inner wheel lift, it probably is due to stiffer springs Shayne. Have you got the winch fitted yet? That will help to tame the springs a bit on the front.

 

[Shayne]

No winch yet Clive though the bumper went someway towards softening them a bit . I guess what i want from the arb is for it to let the hanging wheel to drop a little more maybe finding traction instead of spinning free .

There's a bell ringing somewhere in the abyss telling me there is a solution and full circle maybe you have hit upon it with your "U" dimensions

Move the brackets for a deeper U and both sides have more leverage to twist the bar with .

 

[StarCruiser]

If you lengthen the ARB arms, you will decrease the effectiveness of the ARB and make it easier for the wheels to put tension into it without it moving the opposite wheel up. However, you may stress the ARB beyond its design by having a greater ability to turn one end against the other. At some point, something's gotta give! Especially if it's possible to go to greater extents if travel than stock. Result…potentially a bent ARB. I.e. Over twisted.

There is a potential to remotely disconnect the drop links hydraulically.

 

[Beau]

Don't think leaving the front ARB off or forgetting to re-connect the link will be such a issue. I believe there rear ARB does most of the job at preventing body roll, but having not tested it out I cant be 100% sure.

300 is mighty expensive, I'm sure some fab work yourself wouldn't cost too much. It's the only real way I see at sustaining both off and on road qualities. Do the front ARB's really limit articulation though???

 

[Shayne]

I won't be doing hydraulics Rich its a bruiser not a Rolls Royce

It's not a limiting factor at all Beau the rear more than compensates as is shown here


I just feel it's not right somehow .

Reading more into it the arb is another spring that will lend strength to your normal spring when it comes under individual load (cornering) as well as compressing the inner side to prevent body roll .

Racers tune over/under steer by swapping the arb for heavier more resistant to twist bars or lighter more flexible and guess what i just found

http://www.andysautosport.com/sway_bars/toyota_4runner.html

 

[StarCruiser]

I won't be doing hydraulics Rich its a bruiser not a Rolls Royce

You replace the drop link with a small hydraulic cylinder. When valves closed they are solid. With valves open they can move back and forth giving extra articulation. Never tried it. I've heard of it on some vehicles though.

 

[Shayne]

Chucking another 50 quid at insurers and telling them i removed it altogether might be my best option .

 

[Beau]

I'd drive it first and see how you like it. I remember when both my front links snapped, it was night and day difference especially living in Milton Keynes... Funnily enough, I welded them back together (first ever go at welding at 14) and they're still holding strong.

 

[Shayne]

Where these what you had in mind Rich ?

Me likee

 

[Shayne]

Here's a good example of the arb at work off road , i don't think disconnects would help much in this situation but well you know ...........