33s vs 35s

[EvilEd]

What is needed to go to 33s, and what extra is needed for 35's. I was hoping to go 35's.

As far as I can make out, I can either fit a 1.5" body lift OR a 2" ironman/OME lift to get 33's on comfortably, but up to what width ? will 285's fit (~11.3") or 305's (~12") fit without rubbing, If I need a larger (positive or negative ??) offset, are there wheels freely available that can be got cheap (70/80 series, l200 or Shogun for instance)

And so to 35's.... ~15% larger, so buggers up the speedo (fixable?) but what else, 35's seem to be in 12.5" wide fitments unless I go for silly tyres (simex etc) which would not be suitable for regular road use (may run 2 sets, 33's for general, and 35's for play depending on cost). If I fit the body lift and spring lift, will 35's fit without issue. Being an Auto, will I need a better trans cooler (assuming there is one already) or am I just putting too much into the drivetrain and should stick to 33's. She's going to be "used" offroad.

And finally, will 15" rims clear the brakes ? she's on 16's at the moment, there seems a much larger choice of tyres for 15" rims (33/12.5R15s, 35/12.5R15)... Likely to put Cooper STTs or BFG M/Ts on her for road use, but if I go dual wheel setup, then BFG A/Ts will go on.

Looking to get the lift / body lift ordered as soon as poss as one of the road tyres is down to ~2-3mm that's on her and don't want to spend out on a tyre when I'll be buying a new set shortly.

I see that brake lines should be okay with both lifts together, the Milners b'lift kit comes with the steering extrension, what about the transfer lever and auto gear lever ? (had to move the transfer lever on the Jeep with the body lift). I see the fuel tank is attached to the body, so no issues with the filler pipe. Anything else I need to consider ?

And is there anyone that likes lots of tea and biscuits and would like to help fitting it all

Gotcha's I know of:
Front shock top mounts seem "difficult" what about the rears
Rad shroud needs moving with the body lift
Steering extension.
C springs are going to be very hard until I get the HD bumpers and sliders on her.

Any advice gratefully received, the cruisers are very new to me and I would like to get it right 1st time if I can.

Thanks

EE

 

[fridayman]

AFAIK 15" won't clear the calipers.

The rear top shock mounts can be quite challenging too. The flexi-ratchet spanners make this job a lot easier. I have also been wondering if I should cut a hole in the body, directly above the shock mount, so that it can be accessed with a socket extension from inside the back of the truck. I would fit a rubber grommet in the hole to keep it watertight.

 

[Gav Peter]

I would suspect that ET is right about the 15's interfering with the calipers - they are on late model 80 series compared to the earlier ones.

You can get wheel & tyre packages with steel rims from most tyre places but especially Silverline who advertise in TOR quite a lot.

Shame you live so far away as I have a set of 35's on 80 wheels that you could have tried on for size - I keep meaning to see how they'll fit on our colorado for ha ha's!!!

Have a look at TonyP's SWB 90 Eddie - it might give you a bit of insight... Chris will be along soon with his thoughts soon too

Watching this one & looking forward to seeing where it goes

Cheers

 

[TonyP]

So currently on Lil'Blue I have 265x75x16 which is about 31 inches. Sae70 has fitted 255x85x16 so about 33 inches (see thisthread).

At the next Lincomb event, I would like to try a set of 35's on to see if they will fit.... that is if anyone will let me

 

[Andrew Prince]

35s are going to make the gearing very long too - maybe not such a big issue in a manual but in an auto you will notice it big time.
I imagine the IFS travel arc is going to limit the wheel size too - unless you're prepared to make some big mods to the suspension, I think you're going to get lots of catching/rubbing with 35s.
I'll be watching the outcome of this thread with interest

 

[EvilEd]

265x75x16 which is about 31 inches
255x85x16

(see thisthread).

This http://www.etyres.co.uk/tyre-size-calculator.htm says that...
265x75s are ~31.6" x ~10.5"
285x75 are 32.8"x~11.5" (same as a lot of 33's).
The 255x85s are a smidgen under 33.1" x ~10" wide. I did have a long look through a load of threads including yours last night. The 255's are an option, and with the reduction in width they should dig in a lot better and if I coupled that with some spacers could be really good for the trials with the local club, a better turning circle would also be good.... The downside is that I am more likely to dig in and belly her out over the wider tyres, but that's life. Thinking more about it, will 12.5s be that bad in the mud with the extra weight that the LWB LC carries over the Jeep and the extra weight I will be adding ( I know a SWB 70 series on 35/12.5s had the same problem as me in the jeep on 33x12.5s with floating over the mud/snow and sliding rather than digging in - very hairy moments for both of us as we slid down the hillside sideways watching the zuk boys have no issues) ?

Main issues I have with 35's (315/75R16s) are.... Auto box / transmission coping, gearing as well and what if any trimming / spacers are required. Am happy to buy some steel wheels with better backspacing with the tyres rather than spacers and that would be my preferred choice, but I need to answer the other Qs before I go that route. I have seen loads of 70/80 series on 35's so I would guess the 90 won't be that bad. It needs to stay capable as a daily driver too.

The 255s are sounding very appealing in my mind at the moment.

The other thing is that the 3.4 seems almost under geared at times at the moment, very keen of the start and quick to move up the gears. With the dog in the back I am often setting the 2nd start button to smooth things a little. I have another toy for speed, so I don't need fast pullaways in the LC

 

[EvilEd]

35s are going to make the gearing very long too - maybe not such a big issue in a manual but in an auto you will notice it big time.
I imagine the IFS travel arc is going to limit the wheel size too - unless you're prepared to make some big mods to the suspension, I think you're going to get lots of catching/rubbing with 35s.
I'll be watching the outcome of this thread with interest

That's my concern, don't want to buy 35's and then find that the gearing won't cope or I assist global warming with the auto box. I take it no one has gone to 35's on here ?

Just off to look at TonyP's SWB if I can find it

 

[EvilEd]

Oh yeah, that one...!

Might be picking your brains on the front bumper too later on
And the rear
And the sliders

Gotta love a little over engineering...

Back on topic, the rears look like loads of room still for a 35 in there, but the front it looking a little tight. Any chance you have shove a ruler in on full lock in both directions to see what space you have remembering the tyre will be 1.25" wider each side as well as an inch out. I am guessing that they'll need to come out an inch, and the wheelarch / body will need to be trimmed to allow 35's space... and if you make the front wider, you have to do the back... and so on... .

Think I am talking myself into the 255s at the moment. Then I guess it's the spring lift to get the harder ride for the extra weight. I see a lot of you are on B springs, is that even with the winch bumpers etc ?

 

[TonyP]

That's my concern, don't want to buy 35's and then find that the gearing won't cope or I assist global warming with the auto box. I take it no one has gone to 35's on here ?

Just off to look at TonyP's SWB if I can find it

I don't think anyone has the 35's on a 90 here, though some folk have them on 80's. I have to say even with the MT's I have on at the moment I still slide quite a bit in the mud, I think in mud the 255/85/16 would be much better. Chris (The chap I bought my 90 off) has always thought the 33's would fit, and SAE70 proved that with his tyre change. When I need to change tyres next time I will be going to the 33's... that's if LB survives me

 

[TonyP]

Oh yeah, that one...!

Might be picking your brains on the front bumper too later on
And the rear
And the sliders

Gotta love a little over engineering...

I never modded it.. that was Chris, so he's the man to quizz about all things around the bumpers sliders etc. There is a thread about with the details of the build.

I'll go and measure up in a bit, but I suspect the 35's won't fit in front.....

 

[TonyP]

Ok, just ran out and took some measurements......

Front:
2cm, at the smallest clearance, this was at the rear of the wheel, with it turned in:

4cm with the wheel straight:

The other issue you have the the inside clearance to the suspension, it's about 2cm too:

HTH
For the rears, it's about 7cm infront of the wheel, 17cm to the top and about 8cm to the rear. Could not measure the inside, but I recon it's about 5cm to the suspension bits:

 

[Chris]

Body lift on a 90 makes very little difference in terms of tyres. Taking a hammer and bashing some tin has quite an effect through. It's the pinch seal behind the arch liner that's the issue. Altering castor works too, but on std suspension length, fitting strut spacers probably gets you the best improvement for the least effort. All of this has been covered time and again on here - it's worth a search. You can't do spacers and suspension lift. The wishbones hit the springs. If and I say IF you can get a top ball joint drop kit AND a diff drop, then you could do this. Now at this point, I have to be honest, I would be saying "Why bother". I'd just buy an 80. OK I like a challenge, but unless you have deep pockets, plenty of time, ability etc, it's a lot of effort to achieve something that you can get elsewhere. Make sense?

In terms of getting rear struts off, I shall say this only once (more) as I have said it countless times - JUST CUT THEM OFF!!!!! No need to pranny around with tools, cut them off. Two mins per side, wiggle, wiggle - kettle on. If you have a body lift (see comprehensive body lift guide document) you can get to the top mounts through the gap. So if you are going to do both, do the body lift first. Yes you get a spacer in the Milner kit courtesy of my efforts, but other levers don't need adjustment. Curiously they don't really even look much different after the lift.

Couple of 90s with 255s on now. I have them on my 80 and I couldn't believe the grip in mud over the wider tyres. However, the only 255 available now is the KM2. No Cooper STs left it would seem. I wanted a spare, spare, but never got it. When they are gone they are gone I guess. I might get another road set from somewhere to preserve the 255s. Where the 255 scores on the 90 is the cross diagonal measurement. When you turn the wheel, the edge of the wider tyres is what catches. With the 255, the narrower width means that they don't foul on the corners. Remember that the wishbone is in rubber bushes and as weight transfers etc, that gap that Tony has just measures does change slightly.

Sounds like this is going to be interesting to watch.

Chris

 

[J66P]

I have 265 75 16's on mine and they are as big as I would go on a V6 as I have said already unless you want to have some detrimental effect on the transmission and totally kill the fuel consumption.

You will certainly warm the box up if you go any bigger in diameter, mine very rarely kicked down in standard form but easily does it with the oversize tyres and they do catch very slightly on the front under some circumstances.

I have been in some heavy places with mine already and ground clearance to date hasnt been an issue so dont see any point in going any bigger with the tyres, well for the sake of an inch or so it isnt worth it.

 

[EvilEd]

Well, judging by the comments so far, looks like the 35's are definately out, I don't have the time to "trailblaze" a new setup and need to ensure I go with something that works first time.

So, going to explore the 255 route a little more. I am not sure how 265/75s make that big a difference to the gearing as they are only 0.6" larger ?

Tony/Chris
With all that metalwork / winch, are you running B springs or C ?

I reckon the bumper is going to be heavier than 50Kg (more like 150 with the winch as well) so this suggests a C rated spring , but it's a petrol, so lighter at the front, but it's a LWB...... And I'll put Plasma on this one. (my head is starting to hurt)

 

[Chris]

Ed, answering for Tony (Tony knows why) it's not on Ironman, it's on OME. The fronts are +50 and the rears are in the region of +100 Not A, B or C I'm afraid. The wisdom seems to be in general, that the Ironman B is the way to go. People have tried C and changed it to B later on.

Front IFS doesn't seem to need as much consideration as front live axle in terms of upping the springs. Very easy to over do it. I very much doubt that the bumper and winch will come to 150kgs. Having made one.

Depends on design and construction. The bumper on Lil Blue is intended to be a winch mount inside a 'cosmetic' outer bumper. It's not for ram raiding. You can me a winch bumper out of 4mm if you like so that it can knock over oak trees, but it will get heavier yes. But even the ARB ones don't weight that much.

Chris

 

[J66P]

My Cooper STT's were almost and I mean almost 32 inch, the standards that were originally fitted were just over 30, Side by side there was a good inch difference in the actual diameter. I can only tell you my experience which is also limited on the Cruiser and there aint many others running the V6, most are mainly oil burners which have far more torque and certainly wont suffer the same problem

By my research a

265 70 16 should measure 30.6 inches in diameter

and a

265 75 16 should measure 31.64 inches in diameter

giving a rolling difference of 3.29%

Well thats according to a tyre conversion table from 1010tires

You would struggle to make a winch bumper weigh in at 150kgs unless it was out of 10mm plate I would go on half that at best

 

[24Seven]

Couple of 90s with 255s on now. I have them on my 80 and I couldn't believe the grip in mud over the wider tyres.
Chris

The Copper 255 All Terrains had unbelievable grip compared to 265 Mud Terrains you had in the past? amazing 10mm would make all that difference?

How many miles did you test these over?

 

[Chris]

Matt, different vehicles and different tyres so a pointless comparison. Surprised that you didn't spot that. I never had 265 ATs on my 80. And I don't have 255 ATs on now. The 90 had 275 MT's so I don't know what your point is. But that's not the first time. The comparison that I was making to wider tyres was to 80's fitted with 305s and 315s at the time. Not those that I owned. I was able to climb a bank with ease that others struggled to do in identical vehicles other than the tyres.

How many mile are you expected to drive in mud to notice a difference? Never realised that grip was mileage related.

Chris

 

[adrianr]

Whilst likely to help little ...

I'm still on BFG AT 275/70 on my 80 (and still well pleased even though they look a tad small in the arches with my OME lift they work really well) if it was me i would be going a bit taller and skinnier, but thats my preference only.

 

[BIG clean GREEN]

When you do the body lift, you'll need to adjust the Auto gear lever or it'll appear you're in a different gear !!! dead simple to adjust from underneath, be easier with another pair of eyes sat in the motor looking at the lever as you do the adjusting.

Nick.