80 Battery.

[chapel gate]

I wonder if this is due to the parallel battery setup?

Ive heard it mentioned before sc.

 

[Towpack]

On the 24v start setup on the 80 series the RHS batt powers the air intake heater/glowplugs which alone will pull maybe 50-60A in addition to providing current to the 24v starter when linked in series so it will always take more of a kicking then the LHS batt. You may think this would adversely affect the life of the batteries at different rates but it doesn't seem to. The only reason a bigger capacity battery of the same type may not reach full charge is it would just take longer, requiring periodic external charging or just taking the car on a long(er) run now and again. When I've fitted new batteries in the past I've always gone for bigger capacity if possible as the benefits outweigh the longer charging issue IMO.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

I'm told side terminals are ok unless you want to jump start when it gets a bit tricky.

Dunno, never had to jump em .

 

[Dave]

My original batteries lasted 14 years and were still good when i decided to swap them out just before I moved to Sweden. One less thing to do, possibly, after just getting here. Replacements came from toyota, but were smaller physically ( though the same capacity), and were made in france, instead of japan like the originals,

Then I left the interior lights on for 2 weeks, and they went as flat as a fart. I was in a rush, so bought 2 smaller Tudor batteries that were the only things available short notice and locally that had the correct orientation of terminals.

The very flat batteries were then put on the C-tek and bought back to life. One is now on the tractor, the other is used in the electric fence.

 

[StarCruiser]

On the 24v start setup on the 80 series the RHS batt powers the air intake heater/glowplugs which alone will pull maybe 50-60A in addition to providing current to the 24v starter when linked in series so it will always take more of a kicking then the LHS batt. You may think this would adversely affect the life of the batteries at different rates but it doesn't seem to.

The thing is, leaving voltage drop in cables aside for the moment, whichever battery the load or charging circuit is connected to, the batteries are electrically connected in parallel so both batteries will feed into the load and within a smidge, be depleted the same amount as long as they are in the same condition. Now, this is where problems can start as a fault on one battery can begin to affect the other both in charging and discharging. Very soon one battery turns the pair bad. This may be the reason the 80 batteries last the time they do when single setups seem to last longer like for like.

As an aside, our Mitsi Space Star has the original battery at 12 years and is behaving well despite having had only 13,000 miles put on it in the first 3 1/2 years.

 

[Towpack]

As posted above my originals lasted at least 9 years and admittedly were not equal when drop tested just prior to changing them but they were close, much closer than you'd expect given the extra work the RHS battery does. If you are getting charging/low batt problems on a parallel setup it's easy enough to isolate and test each one to find the bad one.

Digressing slightly, Had a VERY narrow escape this morning with this.....





View attachment 112713 [ATT




Proof to anyone who needs it of the dangers of sparks near a charging battery.
Battery charging at one end of the bench (which I forgot about!) angle grinder in use at the vice at the other end and BANG!
So I hereby nominate myself as a very fortunate w****r of the week!

 

[frank rabbets]

I'm sure on a new car the battery is better quality than what you can buy when it fails. My daughters MR2 2006 battery has only just failed. I was quoted about £1000 pair for original spec 80 batteries from my local T dealer or they could do a £150 pair alternative.

 

[frank rabbets]

What caused that TP ? Heavy discharge test ?

 

[StarCruiser]

Did it 'burn with a squeaky pop' or was that emitted from the trouser department!
Joking aside, that's nasty.

One of my customer's runs a plasma spray rig. 1000A DC plus hydrogen fed into what is best described as a much grown up plasma cutter (except it sprays metal). One of the service engineers told a tale of an engineer that had to change the hydrogen valve on one at Rolls Royce. He arrived, disconnected the valve and left it purging while he went for a leak. On his return he absent minded lay lit up a fag. Apparently the resultant hydrogen explosion killed him and injured two other RR workers.

 

[Towpack]

I'd rigged up an old fire blanket in an attempt to catch most of the sparks and dust. There was a bright flash across the bench and I thought the grinder motor had blown up until I saw liquid spilling off the bench onto the floor and then the battery with no top on and one side of the case missing, luckily the back side facing the wall. It's and old leisure battery from the caravan which was on it's last legs anyway and not holding charge and only charging at around 1/2A. Good excuse for a new battery then, oh and some new carpet in the garage and a new sweat shirt which now resembles a string vest.

 

[StarCruiser]

This leads back on to internally fitted leisure batteries. That wouldn't have been good in the rear of a cruiser! That settles it (if I hadn't already decided anyway) a sealed gel type battery be it an optima or a box, is the only way to go barring one with a vent to outside but that's extra faffin'!

Good job you had the blanket up TP. If that hadn't been there you could have been showered with hot acid! I guess you gave everything a pretty swift dousing with some bicarb to neutralise the acid.

 

[Dave2000]

I'm sure on a new car the battery is better quality than what you can buy when it fails. My daughters MR2 2006 battery has only just failed. I was quoted about £1000 pair for original spec 80 batteries from my local T dealer or they could do a £150 pair alternative.

Spot on Frank! Original equipment is always a better grade.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave2000]

On the 24v start setup on the 80 series the RHS batt powers the air intake heater/glowplugs which alone will pull maybe 50-60A in addition to providing current to the 24v starter when linked in series so it will always take more of a kicking then the LHS batt. You may think this would adversely affect the life of the batteries at different rates but it doesn't seem to. The only reason a bigger capacity battery of the same type may not reach full charge is it would just take longer, requiring periodic external charging or just taking the car on a long(er) run now and again. When I've fitted new batteries in the past I've always gone for bigger capacity if possible as the benefits outweigh the longer charging issue IMO.

I think you will find that when the ignition is switched on, both batteries are supplying the intake heater TP, they are still in parallel, and when you crank the 24v pull is across the pair, engine starts you release the key and the pull continues from the pair albeit now aided by the alternator.

Could be wrong, mine has been 12v for the last 5 or 6 years?

EDIT: Thinking about it a little more, the 80 batteries are being drawn on equally at all times, either when ignition off (parallel) so central locking alarm, or when ignition on (still parallel) so glow plugs/intake heater, or when cranking (series), it is awhile back so that paragraph is open to correction.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave2000]

My original batteries lasted 14 years and were still good when i decided to swap them out just before I moved to Sweden. One less thing to do, possibly, after just getting here. Replacements came from toyota, but were smaller physically ( though the same capacity), and were made in france, instead of japan like the originals,

Then I left the interior lights on for 2 weeks, and they went as flat as a fart. I was in a rush, so bought 2 smaller Tudor batteries that were the only things available short notice and locally that had the correct orientation of terminals.

The very flat batteries were then put on the C-tek and bought back to life. One is now on the tractor, the other is used in the electric fence.

The week I purchased mine, and had been told the batteries were low, I purchased two from a UK supplier. as you say they were smaller and the same capacity, and I noticed mine were made in Spain! When I returned to Spain the price here for the same batteries were a lot dearer.

regards

Dave

 

[StarCruiser]

EDIT: Thinking about it a little more, the 80 batteries are being drawn on equally at all times, either when ignition off (parallel) so central locking alarm, or when ignition on (still parallel) so glow plugs/intake heater, or when cranking (series)

Spot on Dave, and what I was trying to say earlier. There are three states if you like. Well two really but one has two parts and TP is partly correct at least.

1, At rest, and with engine started, anything that draws power is fed by both batteries. When running, alternator charging voltage feeds both batteries almost equally.
2, During cranking (and potentially with the key in the position just before the starting position, **this needs confirming as I THINK the change over relay pulls in at this point but it may pull in at the start of cranking, I will have to check**), all loads bar the starter motor as well as the charging circuit from the alternator, are connected to the right hand battery.
3, During cranking the left hand battery is in series with the right hand and purely supplies the starter in addition to the right hand battery.
Once the key is returned to the run position the relay drops out and all reverts to normal as in 1, above.

 

[Towpack]

The 24v changeover operates when the key is turned to the start or 'crank' position so the load on the RH battery is that drawn by the starter motor + the 50-60A of the intake heater/glowplugs. Agreed, this is only for the duration of cranking the engine so if your engine fires with barely 1 turn of crank, as mine and most 80's do, then I guess it's no big issue and probably why both my batteries were in a similar state when I came to replace them. Obviously, extended periods of (cold) engine cranking will give the RH battery a much bigger kicking.

AS regards the exploding battery it was a standard 'wet' type budget leisure battery, on the van when I got it. I've had one of these 'clever' chargers on it for a while trying to rescue it but at 11 years old I guess it's past it. All lead acid batteries produce gas, even the sealed gel type to a far lesser degree so maybe I'd have got away with it. Who knows?

 

[frank rabbets]

So what caused it TP ? Were you just charging it or testing it ?

 

[clivehorridge]

I know that feeling, I blew a battery whilst leaning over it.

Stupid me, it had just been disconnected from charging all night and I was trying to bench test an "A" series that I'd just rebuilt. It was a bit tight so I had the earth strap bolted to the block and I was firing the starter with a tyre lever from the +ve terminal of the battery.

Bang it went, And I was totally deaf in both ears for about 1/2 hour. My face and body were covered in acid, so I ran into the house and got copious amounts of water and tablet soap on my face while the missus was looking for bicarb.

My clothes went straight into the wash machine and came out like string vest material, overalls and jeans alike.

Not pleasant at all.

 

[Towpack]

So what caused it TP ? Were you just charging it or testing it ?

It had been on charge for a while, showing 'fully charged' on the charger which was delivering a small maintenance charge. Unscrewing the caps on each cell you could see the gas bubbles, obviously hydrogen. The caps were screwed on but there was a vent pipe at one end. The fact that hydrogen has no smell just makes it more dangerous.

 

[frank rabbets]

I got so muddled up on line I just went down the local battery shop and bought 4 x Vartas.

2x G7 12v 95ah 830A 306 083 313 2
2x G8 "

Is 830 A the type? Not much reference to this number on line. £98 each. Not far to take them back.