90 series - front suspension ball joint wear

[chadr]

There was a recent post on the "other" side about front ball joint wear on the Colorado which caused me some concern.....Bob Murphy, who is very knowledgeable member (and also a member here I believe) posted pics of a failure on his 1997 3.0TD 95 which had done around 133K.

I hope Bob won't mind if I copy his posts and pics here;

You are right about problems with the lower balljoints.

I was towing two large horses with four adults and loads of kit in the car when the steering started to feel stiff. I said I though there was a problem and would look for a layby.

Well, I didn't make it . . . . BANG . . Clatter . . Scraaaaaaaaape.

I ended-up changing top and bottom ball joints on both sides, new springs & shocks, wheel bearings, Brake hoses, Track Rod ends an ABS harness and a replacement N/S drive shaft - about £1,000 all-up.

The top ball joints are a bit of a pain as they are tight and the steering knuckle is 'springy' so it doesn't knock out well.

I have a 30-ton floor press - its a doddle with one of those (so are the wheel bearings).

Looking at the mechanics, there is a tremendous force trying to pull the lower balljoint apart. Its something that we should be replacing on a regular basis in my opinion (Isn't hindsight wonderful - if you could bottle it you'd make a fortune

).

I used Milners parts (Roughtrax springs) but I didn't find them to be good - rather soft, nothing torqued-up cleanly and it all felt as though it was bending/stretching. I have paint-marked all the important joints and check them regularly.

I would go for better quality stuff if you can.

Good luck

.

Bob.

................

I was doing about 41 mph when it happened.

The wheel (actually the tyre) took the load but it was quite civilised and controllable. I didn't have brakes though as the N/S hose had gone (strange that, I should have had rear brakes as its a dual circuit system - but I couldn't feel any - I used the handbrake).

The lower balljoint stud and nut were worn away on the road, as was one of the tripod bearings on the driveshaft.

There wasn't any damage to the road - just a feint line on the stone in the tarmac.

It cost me a new BFG A/T as the tyre sidewall was worn through to the carcass

.

I repaired the plastic trim and mud flap with a hot air gun and a hot glue gun - its holding up OK.

It was a job that I'd been intending to do as a precaution - typical

.

The truck had 133,000 miles on it and I doubt the balljoints had ever been changed so . . Don't delay if you have a high mileage Cruiser !!!

Bob.

Is there an easy way to check for wear? Or should we be replacing these as part of "routine" maintenance after a certain mileage/age anyway?

I've got visions of mine failing at the worst possible moment......

 

[Shayne]

I found out about this "known fault" quite a while ago and emailed Toyota asking if there was ever a recall (as is suggested on some forums) and if so how do i find out if my truck was included . They never replied despite my suggesting in the same email i might be interested in booking a full service .

After much reading i have decided the crux of the matter is this - if its going to fail it will without warning and there is no way to test for weakness . I toyed with the idea of having them replaced by Toyota at some hideous cost but then decided it's not yet a year since i put my truck into Toyota for their 160 point test and payed for any failure or advisory to be repaired and my truck is only just threatening to reach 100k so i've shelved the idea to be looked at again sometime in the future .

 

[Beau]

Is this really a known problem with these 90 series, I think the above is the first I've come across? As said above, are there actually any signs or symptoms you can tell if they're on there way out (knocks ect). My cruiser is approaching 180k soon and it's not had any part of it's drive train changed, just a few bushes.

 

[Shayne]

Trouble is Beau its a known problem with no known cure , either fix it when its not broken or don't and it might not break ? Google it and you will find lots of discussion but none of it actually leads anywhere .

 

[chadr]

I have to admit to reading many of the Landcruiser forums fairly regularly, here, TLOCUK, Pradopoint etc. and whilst I've seen this issue crop up more than once, I never regarded it as an endemic or even particularly common issue to the 90 series.

My main concern is that unlike some other failures, this could one have dire consequences........

 

[AndyCook]

I got my Colorado or should i say "cwc"'s Colorado now ,
checked by Toyota in August prior to going to Morocco.
they identified slight wear in one of the lower balljoints. I asked them to replace both sides even though they said it was minimal movement on one side only, i wanted reliability and didnt want a failure like Bob had. They fitted genuine toyota parts, much more expensive than milners etc, but i wanted correct parts. i did get a discount though which helped

 

[David]

That's very good to know that they have been done Andy

 

[sae70]

I removed the nearside one on Fiery in the summer as it had a split boot. Luckily I have a couple of spare front legs in the shed, so was just going to replace the boot. When I had it off I found it to be all notchy and not at all smooth, so replaced it with a RoughTrax one. I then checked the other one, but found it to be all smooth and with no play so left it alone. I also serviced both the top and bottom ones with new grease and a clean. It's a shame they dont fit a grease nipple on the bottom/top of them!

 

[Shayne]

I got my Colorado or should i say "cwc"'s Colorado now ,
checked by Toyota in August prior to going to Morocco.
they identified slight wear in one of the lower balljoints. I asked them to replace both sides even though they said it was minimal movement on one side only, i wanted reliability and didnt want a failure like Bob had. They fitted genuine toyota parts, much more expensive than milners etc, but i wanted correct parts. i did get a discount though which helped

I'm sure i won't be the only member that would be grateful if you could offer a ballpark figure at what Toyota charge for this job Andy ?

 

[AndyCook]

hi Shayne
it had other stuff as well, so dont know what the figure was for the balljoint alone
they did have to remove the whole knuckle as one bolt put up a fight

cwc has the invoice in the pile of paperwork i gave him

the balljoints are around £100-120 each for the part alone

 

[jbecks]

Ball joints don't normally just fail and the design of these ball joints is used on a lot of different vehicles, I wonder if a worn ball joit went unnoticed?

 

[Bounder]

Ball joints don't normally just fail and the design of these ball joints is used on a lot of different vehicles, I wonder if a worn ball joit went unnoticed?

But the design of these is different, they aren't resisting a compression force, they are being pulled apart.
I sold mine with 275k miles on it and hadn't had any failures, I did replace the N/S one as a precaution.
I got mine from Roughtrax The Gregorys manual I sold with the vehicle had a test for them something to do with spinning the ball 3 or 4 times and then checking for play, I can't remember exactly.
The old one was still within tolerance when checked with this method

 

[jbecks]

The design maybe different but at the same time it's not exclusive to the 90/95 series of vehicles. Any ball joint that's developed play and left long enough is at risk of failure occurring. I don't believe this ball joint was serviceable at time of failure.

 

[fridayman]

This is only the 2nd such failure that I've read about.

My truck started pulling to the side slightly under braking and making a slight clonking noise just before stopping. After lots of checking I found the lower ball joints had up/down play in them - 5mm on one side and almost 10mm on the other. The truck had done 170k miles and as far as I know the ball joints were original.

 

[BobMurphy]

I hope Bob won't mind if I copy his posts and pics here.

Not at all .

I have seen about three other posts where this happened and when the steering started to feel stiff I was pretty sure I knew what it was (having a soft tyre after I had just checked them would have been too easy).

My truck had been MOTd about two months earlier without any problems and I hadn't been aware of any wear in the joints.

I suspect the life is influenced by the type of driving. My truck had (I am told) been owned by a Vets' Practice so has probably been into wet & muddy fields all its earlier life - certainly the lower radiator was blocked with mud when I bought it.

There are no grease nipples on the swivels which would have helped as it looked quite dry when I examined the remains.

As I said - I had been intending to replace the ball joints as a precaution but was tied-up working on my younger daughter's new/old house and hadn't found any "me time" before it failed.

I would suggest that these should be replaced when the truck reaches a reasonable mileage - its better than fixing it afterwards .

Bob.

 

[Beau]

This is only the 2nd such failure that I've read about.

My truck started pulling to the side slightly under braking and making a slight clonking noise just before stopping. After lots of checking I found the lower ball joints had up/down play in them - 5mm on one side and almost 10mm on the other. The truck had done 170k miles and as far as I know the ball joints were original.

Do you go off road/tracks with your cruiser?

I would assume for normal road driving these ball joints should last a lifetime. I would think going off road ect would put more strain and cause more wear on those items, would they not?

 

[BobMurphy]

Do you go off road/tracks with your cruiser?

I would assume for normal road driving these ball joints should last a lifetime. I would think going off road ect would put more strain and cause more wear on those items, would they not?

I went over to Pete Bell's place to collect a replacement drive shaft. Pete has had lower balljoints fail during his "Extreme Off-roading" days - so you are right .

Bob.

 

[jbecks]

Bob, do you know how your MOT guy tested the ball joints? because if he done it the way I think he may have....he may not have detected any play in the ball joint.

 

[Bounder]

My BIL had his Balljoint fail on his 90 SWB , but the first one I ever heard of was a Bulgarian guy on the darkside.
Probably getting to the age now where failure is more common.

 

[BobMurphy]

Bob, do you know how your MOT guy tested the ball joints? because if he done it the way I think he may have....he may not have detected any play in the ball joint.

No, I didn't see him do it. I just drop cars off in the morning and pick them up in the evening (15 min walk).


I have told them about the failure though.


Bob.