A couple of questions about the knuckles please

[Dan W]

Hi, I've done a ickle bit of searching but I think I might need an adult to help me

First off, the cv/birfield joints. When I seperate them with my scaffold pole, I've read that a snap ring on the end of the inner shaft will probably break.
From pictures though I can make out that there's two circlip type things on the inner shaft, the outermost one is supposed to be the one that gets broken so I'm going to order two from Toyota tomorrow. However on my EPC it just lists one part number for the snap ring which is 43411C. Is this the outermost one that will need replacing or will I be ordering the inner one that apparently survives the seperation of the birfield?

And secondly I've read that the birfield, knuckle and the trunion bearings need to be packed with moly grease. I've purchased the needle roller bearings to replace the bronze bushes. As they are part of the knuckle should they be packed with moly or wheel bearing grease please (I'm assuming they are packed with grease at all?)?

Thankyou, I'm slightly out of my comfort zone here

 

[Chris]

Dan, I rebuilt mine fully the other week, you could have come and watched. I have offered before.

I have never had either the circlip or the snap ring fail and i have split plenty of joints. It's the inner one inside the Birfield that can cause issues. I would prefer to replace that one each time, but don't always. If the joint splits in one hit then usually I'll give it a look see and put it back in. If it takes a right thrashing then it goes in the bin. If it gets damaged then next time you come to pull the joint you may not get it apart. They are a tuppence part. With Milner CV you get new circlips anyway. You don't with a genuine CV though. The outer snap ring on the end of the stub axle can be used again and again in my experience. If you use proper pliers to get it off that is.

 

[Dan W]

Thanks Chris, it was a spur of the moment thing to start doing it as I had diff oil draining out the knuckle. So far mymain issue has been dealing with the rusty bits and snapped bolts. Going for possibly the longest axle service in history.
What do you think about the grease?

 

[Chris]

Moly cv grease in the needles

 

[Dan W]

Thankyou very much. I've ordered the snap rings from Toyota just in case I break one when disassembling the birfield.
Just one wiper seal bolt to drill out and tap and then hopefully I can start reassembling bits.
Thankyou for your help.

 

[Dan W]

Okay I've taken apart the birfield joints and the snap rings did survive. Oddly though I don't appear to have the circlip on the inner axle shaft just the snap ring

 

[Chris]

Really? No wire ring inside the CV? Not sure how to read your post Dan. You had the snap ring at the very end of the shaft at the drive flange end, but no clip on the end of the axle?

 

[Dan W]

Really? No wire ring inside the CV? Not sure how to read your post Dan. You had the snap ring at the very end of the shaft at the drive flange end, but no clip on the end of the axle?

Sorry it's hard to explain it, I'll have another go.

On the shaft that runs from the diff to the birfield joint (I'm calling this the inner axle shaft if that's correct?) my workshop manual and some youtube videos show two rings at the end of it. The first (the one closest to the diff end) is what I call a circlip and from the videos looks very similar to the circlip that's on the very end of the drive shaft (the first one you remove after taking the grease cap off).
The second is the spring clip and is inside the birfield joint and is the one I was worried about breaking when dismantling the joint.

So I have the spring clip, but not the circlip on mine. I initially thought that the Youtube videos I was watching may be referring to a different model of landcruiser, but it shows up on the Toyota workshop manual I have for the 80 series.

It's hard to explain without pictures, as I'm on the workshop PC it's difficult to post them but here is a link to a google image search that highlights the two rings.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=l...oyota-80-series-electric-locking.html;640;480

 

[Chris]

There are only two rings one inner wire type clip and one outer style flat snap ring
End of story.

 

[Dan W]

There are only two rings one inner wire type clip and one outer style flat snap ring
End of story.

Okay thankyou. Just so you don't think I'm insane (although this might make it worse), I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say there must be two variants of the inner axle shafts. One with a circlip and a snap ring and one with just a snap ring.

For instance this one is like mine, snap ring at front but no groove further back for a circlip and looking at it, it seems to have a wider area at the back of the splines, this perhaps replaces the circlip?



And this one has two grooves in the splines, one for a snap ring and one for a circlip. This style is pictured in the Toyota workshop manual (causing my confusion).



Sorry to keep going on, it's just that the previous owner has done all manner of weird and wonderful things to the car and I just need to check I'm not missing bits or have the wrong parts fitted.
Thanks for your patience.

 

[Chris]

Nope. They all just look like this -



That drive shaft isn't normal. 2 clips? Nah.

Oh and I'd scrap that circlip. It's sprung too far. Or at least bend it in a bit

 

[karl webster]

Ive never seen a half shaft for two clips. Maybe yota have used the wrong photo.

 

[Andrew Prince]

Sounds like you're talking about the end of the drive shaft that goes into the diff? No circlip/snapring there, as the gentlemen above have described.

 

[Chris]

Andrew, nice to hear you're still around! If you look at the picture, the wheel end of the shaft in question has two clear grooves cut into the spines. I have no idea when unless someone was messing around in the past with some idea. Or the shaft was damaged perhaps and a section removed. The other clip groove also looks much closer to the end of the shaft than mine does.

 

[Dan W]

Ive never seen a half shaft for two clips. Maybe yota have used the wrong photo.

I think you could be right there. The shaft in this vid has the two clips, but it appears to be from an earlier model Landcruiser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0_jL83jMH8

Maybe Toyota used the pictures from that FSM for the 80 series and no-one ever noticed?

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Dan, what year is your Cruiser?

Andy

 

[Chris]

He actually mentions the inner circlip in the film. And Marr-tacking as well. I think that's been a modification. There is no reason to try to stop the shaft from tracking too far up inside the CV really. An interesting alternative to Marr-tacking at the other end though. Worth thinking about. Reversible too - if you have access to a lathe. Quite easy to measure as well I'd imagine just using a rubber o ring on the shaft before assembly

 

[frank rabbets]

Aren't the circlip(s) to make sure the shaft oil seal is running centrally.

 

[Chris]

I would have though that unlikely Frank. If you look at the picture, the second clip is in the splines. Firstly, I don't think I'd want the splines actually running in the seal and secondly, the shaft is too long in any case to allow the clip to ever retreat that far back down the axle. I rather think that it is to prevent the axle walking to other way further into the CV itself. It all looks like 80 gear but that's no guarantee. The shaft in the film may have been recycled from another project. All we know is that on a standard shaft there is only one. I've never had a snap ring come off the shaft like the one shown.

 

[frank rabbets]

I just thought that without say the end standard clip the shaft would go back and forth inside the axle tube and may stress the oil seal. Like you say I cannot see a clear reason for any clip.