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Automatic Gearbox Separate Inter-Cooler, do they really work?!

Good pictures - so its basically a bit of copper pipe ?!. I wonder how fast it passes through that as I cant imagine it cools alot !

As for the inlet / outlet if mounted sideways - once thinking about it the hot at the top and cold at the bottom makes sense as posted above :)

Its Brass but because its hollow the surface area is pretty good for alllowing the coolant in and around.
 
Yes it sits in the bottom of the Rad submerged by the coolant, if you look at the first picture it shows it sitting in the bottom plastic cap of the Rad.
 
I didnt know if it floated or rested against the side and bottom :)
 
To check the auto gearbox oil level you need the engine running, and to cycle the gearbox through all the gears (I usually pause for a few seconds in each gear) to get the oil fully circulated throughout the gearbox, all its valves and oil ways. Then put it into park or neutral and check the level, the two different levels are for whether your checking the level with cold or hot oil.

Something is definitely not happy if your getting the over temp light up in Wales, the system should be good for much higher temperatures and altitudes than can be experienced there. I have two auto 4wd's both of which I have used for a number of years in high load, high temperature and high altitude situations, one is a LR Discovery TDI auto, there other my LC TD 80 series. In the early days with the discovery the over temp light did come on a couple of times, I soon learned that when in very high load situations I needed to manage the auto gearbox heat build up early on.

When driving on a flat road with light load the gearbox has no trouble managing the heat as its often 'locked up', but when the vehicle is climbing up a mountainside hairpin road, the gearbox doesn't have the opportunity to 'lock up' and is slipping all the time. Imagine as you negotiate the hairpin bend the box is in first, it then generates heat as it builds its way up and changes into second gear, and the same again into third, then you slow down and negotiate the next hairpin. The vehicle is at altitude, the air is thin, air flow is low and the ambient temperature may be high, the auto gearbox has a really hard time shedding its heat. Its in these situations that you have to start manual shifting the auto gearbox to help limit the heat build up, the gearbox doesn't know the terrain that you're driving, but you do! So the driver can interpret the conditions ahead and shift the gearbox accordingly to keep the auto gearbox oil temperatures under control.

When driving steep terrain I manually select a gear, say second, so that the gearbox will only shift between first and second, once into second I let the engine rev and take the strain. By limiting the gearbox to second you stop the box attempting to change up into third and generating lots of heat in the process. If the distance between hairpins increases and I need third, I just manually shift up and the box responds quickly with minimal slip and therefore minimal build up.

I was once laid a challenge to get to the top of a long hairpin climb with my discovery, whilst keeping up with a LC 120 series (manual), with careful manual shifting of the auto gearbox I made it all the way up in one go and kept up with the 120 in front. Apparently 4x4's with auto gearboxes normally have to stop part way as the over temp light comes on.

Driving with the auto gearbox temps in mind I have managed to get the Discovery everywhere I've wanted to it to without over heating the box. The 80 doesn't have to work as hard and I have never had the over temp light come on. Both vehicles have standard cooling setups. My FZJ105 in Oz is also an auto, and we really used her full capacity when off roading during the summer high temperatures at altitude, and sometimes trying to keep up with Ben! Again with careful control of the auto box, we didn't over temp the gearbox, and this was under the perfect conditions to overload a box. The 105 was fully loaded, at altitude, climbing for long periods at ambient temperatures of 45 degrees celsius.

If I was to add an aux cooler, I'd set it up as Toyota have on the 100, through the aux cooler first then into the rad, as under certain circumstances the cooling system will help to keep the ATF temperature within an acceptable range. We have to think of the all circumstances and weather conditions that our vehicles will be subjected to, mine have driven through snow in mountains and sand on a sunny beach in the same day. Plus the aux cooler will reduce the heat loading placed on the engines cooling system by the ATF.

The FZJ105 has a separate auto gearbox oil cooler which seems to work very well in my experience, I think FZJ80's have the same set up, a possible source of aux coolers? A word of warning, I did once know someone who bought a secondhand aux cooler for a vehicle and installed it only to find that it was still contaminated with the contents of a previous failed gearbox, this then lunched his. So if condition is unknown, always flush the cooler first.

I have no firsthand experience of 90/95 series, but if it was mine I'd be tempted to use both the OEM and aux coolers, aux first then into the OEM rad cooler. As others are doing, I'd change the rad regularly with a genuine Toyota one to minimise the risk of an age related cooler failure.

The current location of the aux cooler may be too far to one side, and out of the airflow generated by the viscous fan. You wouldn't really notice it when driving under normal conditions as the loading on the auto gearbox would be light, and the airflow through the cooler from the moving vehicle would be unto the job of removing the ATF heat. Its the low speed, high load circumstances that find the weaknesses.

I personally haven't seen rads/coolers mounted hard up against each other, I would expect that if an aux cooler was mounted in contact with another rad, it would lead to vibration and rubbing between the two and possible failure as a result. On the FZJ105 there is a gap between the auto cooler and AC condenser, and then a strip of foam between the condenser and engine rad, to eliminate rubbing.

The auto gearbox slipping and not picking up straight away concerns me, I'd be flushing the ATF a couple of times and changing the filter, even though the oil still looks good. Its seen high temperatures and has experienced slip, I'd change it and see how it responds.

All this sounds like doom and gloom but it isn't, I still prefer an auto for my style of driving and usage, they are so smooth and controllable that 9 times out of 10 they are a joy to drive.

(Apologise if there are any mistakes above, I'm still recovering from a stag do at the weekend!).

Happy spannering Steven, you love it!!!
 
This is turning into the most fascinating thread I've read in a while :) I've learnt more by way of this thread in the last day than I have in the last month :) ;)

Reading what you have clearly spent a long time typing Scott was like reading a report written by my co-driver for the day! You could have been sat next to me with a clipboard in the way you described the type of driving conditions leading up to each of the three over temperature events! All I would add is that I'm generally not a very sedate driver preferring a more brisk foot down style of driving and each of the over heating events followed one of the types of climbs that you describe at the top of a mountain! I'm now more than confident that my style of driving combined with the poorly installed ATF oil cooler, mid twenties °C weather is what has lead to the 'Auto O/T' light coming on! In defense it would not take very many minutes of tick over with the bonnet lifted to reduce the ATF oil temp enough for the light to go out. We were then still drinking a cup of tea or eating a French Fancie, so the oil had plenty of time to properly cool down. One time I used the new fire assistance fan that we've been developing to help speed the gearbox oil cooling process :)

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It's a cut down Suzuki Vitara interior heater fan with a duct made from a bit of HGV curtain side material and now has two uses :thumbup:

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A couple of months back when up in Wales for an identical weekend of off-roading and wild camping I had no trouble with the gearbox performance or its oil temperature, running the same set up! Though the weather conditions were very different, it was mostly woolly jumper weather and raining!

What I am uncertain of currently is if the oil level in the gearbox is correct and I suspect that it may be a little low as I did have a leak from one of the oil cooler connection pipes that was sorted with just a nip up of the pipe clamp. Although a bit of a mess I had thought that little had been lost, but maybe more than I thought had been lost and with my incorrect method of level checking I've just not picked up on it!

The slow pick up started before I went up to Wales this weekend just gone, so I'm confident that it's not related to the over temperature events of this weekend just gone.

I think the first thing that I need to do is get a good and very accurate reading of the gearbox oil level and move forwards from there. I'm happy to keep the after market oil cooler for now and see how it goes, but with it better mounted for cooling and performance. Leaving the addition of the OE cooler as an option not to be discounted dependent upon the results of the aforementioned checks and modifications.
 
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Completely unrelated to this thread I know, but here is the still under development fire accelerator in action :obscene-smokingjoi:

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It really is bloody awesome and just enough to make a grown man weep :) ;)
 
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Glad some of that was useful. You don't have to be a sedate driver when your driving an auto, you just need to drive with the auto box heat build up in mind. When climbing a mountain pass in a heavily loaded 4wd you want to keep your momentum up, so smooth spirited driving and careful gear selection are required. You can still get a move on, but manually shift the gears and get the engine to take more of the strain by using the revs.

I manually shift my auto in these conditions and make the decision for the gearbox instead of letting the box generate heat trying to assess the conditions and select the gear required. I shift down when entering the hairpin, and then work my way back up through the box, holding the gear for longer and making the engine rev more than usual, as and when I do shift up the box assess the conditions/loads and shifts quickly into the next gear, this keeps heat build up low.

I forgot to mention about cooling the gearbox if the over temp light comes on. If its safe to stop, I stop, select neutral and hold the engine at fast idle, this pulls air across the rad or cooler and circulates the ATF around the system and through the cooler. It shouldn't take long to cool back down if caught swiftly. If it isn't safe to stop, lock the gearbox into a suitable low gear and proceed to drive sedately, with a light loading on the gearbox (this will only work if the road is starting to level out, and not still whilst slogging up a steep climb). Locking the box in gear, keeping the loading light and maintaining air flow over the rad/cooler will bring the temp back down (but stopping is the best policy if possible).
 
Wow! thanks for that write up Scott. I think my long term plan will be new Rad, aux cooler before it and a lower temp thermostat to keep everything cool (and warm!) when its supposed to be. First thing I have to do is change the oil lines to the rad from the gearbox, but I still cant find out what the fittings to the box actually are - I have had a price for new lines from that nice man Simon, so I just may go along that road.
As above, this is a very interesting thread!
 
Soooooooooooo.............:whistle:

Used the truck for the school run this morning to get some heat into the gearbox oil before checking the level with the engine running. When I got home I decided it would be nice to see what the temperature of the oil cooler was, so I left the truck ticking over while I unlocked the shed and then had a rummage for my test meter with a temperature probe option only to find the battery flat. Back into the house and nick a battery out of one of the smoke alarms, back outside get the front grill off and the temp was 80°C. Not sure what I was expecting, but decided this was higher enough for a 'HOT' oil level.

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On the other side of the oil cooler I got a reading of 78°C

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Dipped the oil level and the result was, just on the low of the hot oil level!!

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Out with the ATF as she clearly needs some :shifty:

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A glug of 300ml followed by another level check, then another glug of 200ml :shifty: :eusa-whistle:

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Ah, now that's looking better :icon-biggrin:

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A quick run out and shift through all of the gears. Temp prob back in upon my return and another level check found it still to be a little low!

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So in with another 100ml just to finish the job off :icon-smile:

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Another level check finds it to be spot on :thumbup:

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She seems to be shifting a lot smoother now, not as hesitant to take off either. Is 600ml a lot of oil then? :) ;)
 
I dont know if 600 is a lot, I can drink more Scotch in an evening than that! (hic). When our Truck is left sometimes for a week or even 2 without being used, when its started (always 1st time btw) and 'D' engaged (or Reverse depending on which way it was left on the drive), it sometimes takes a bit of welly on the go peddle to get it to move, after the initial move, no problem.
I have just ordered one of these at a silly price from Amazon in the US of A! 65 £ including import tax delivered to froggy France!
I plan to put in in line before the OE radiator. I best get onto Simon and get the new oil pipes ordered up too!
 
Oil cooler

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We have a similar set up to this seems to work well in all conditions. It's been on for about 4 years and as worked very well. It's fitted to an 80 series.
 
Stephen, I have glanced through the rest of the thread but can't see a mention anywhere of making sure that your radiator is completely clear. Given what we do with our vehicles it's no surprise that the rads fill up. I washed my 80 rad through from behind and figured it was pretty clean. A week later I ended up pulling it for some reason and thought I'd give it another quick blast. Mud ran out of the fins for another 45 mins. The effect though was staggering. It was like it had another 100Hp. The temp was normal on the dash, but the effort in maintaining that was Herculean. If yours is blocked up at all, it could make a huge difference especially as it's trying to cool the trans too.

Just thought I'd stick my oar in.
 
Is 600ml a lot of oil then? :) ;)

Given that your autobox has probably 7-8 litres in it, not really.

When the transcooler pipe fractured on my Merc, it took about 3 litres lost before you noticed the difference.
 
Given that your autobox has probably 7-8 litres in it, not really.

It's closer to 12 litres. :icon-eek:

After a month of problem-free driving, a few weeks ago my new-to-me 1999 Colorado VX popped the oil cooler inside the radiator and allowed coolant and transmission oil to swap freely. Fortunately, I caught it after only driving a couple of miles.

Usually, I fix these kind of things myself but I didn't have time and took it to a local garage. I supplied a Milners radiator, and the garage flushed the transmission and cooling system. They were surprised that the transmission took 10 litres of Dexron III. After a day or two, I noticed the transmission would delay engaging when cold but was fine when hot - a classic symptom of low fluid. I checked the level with the engine running and hot, and sure enough, it was below even the "cold" line on the dipstick. I let it cool down over night, and checked the level the next morning before starting the vehicle. The fluid level was right on the "cold" line, which is actually incorrect! It has to be checked running, and should be hot. Looks like the garage mistakenly filled the transmission cold without the engine running. It's an easy mistake to make. I topped it up with 2 more litres of Dexron III and it's been fine since.

I'm still kicking myself for not changing the radiator as soon as I got the vehicle because it's a known problem. I kept putting it off, thinking I'd just drive it one more day and order a new radiator tomorrow. :angry-nono:
 
Wow, that was a bit Lucky! I have had mine for a year and a bit, but the rad was changed in 2008, so maybe time to change again....
 
I pulled the radiator out of Swampy to give it a good clean :eusa-whistle:

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Anyways, while it was out I took the opportunity to have a look at the OE ATF cooler and it's a very different beast to the one that 'silvercruiser' posted a photo up of. I wonder what one is OE?

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Blocked rad. Damn, wish I'd mentioned that.
 
Steven good job well done. dont forget yours is a D4D so this maybe how they upgraded the rad to stop the mixing of the two fluids. if this is the case then wouldnt it be great to know if these rads fit on our older 1kzte.

is it made of cast aluminium?
 
is it made of cast aluminium?
It certainly looks like it. When you remove the drain plug and look into the hole you can see a flat smooth ally surface with a slightly rounded square edge at the base of the rad. It looks like a multi layer 18+" long cooler.
 
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