Best in the snow???

shelf

New Member
Sep 2, 2010
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Hi all,

I am looking for a diesel cruiser to use for a ski season in central Europe. Does anyone know how reliable the Prado/Colorado is in difficult conditions (especially cold weather).

A friend of mine -who normally knows nothing about anything i should add - told me to only get a 80 series or a 100 series, but most of the affordable second hand cruisers out there are 90s.

A; Can a 90 be considered as reliable as an 80/100 TD?
or
B: Is a well looked after 90 reliable enough to start 9/10 in any weather?

Thoughts please, all wisdom welcome... oh and if anyone knows of a decent wagon going for around the 4-5K mark.... you have yourself an interested buyer.

Much love

PS: I used to own a disco, but decided that driving a Land Rover over there and keeping it for a whole season in cold conditions is a bit of a liability.
 

pugwash

Well-Known Member
I am in uk
Mar 1, 2010
389
1
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N Hampshire
Get a Subaru 4wd with winter tyres.

for normal driving you don't need ground clearance as all the Alpine countries are pretty damn good at clearing the snow - it will be gone by the following morning when you get up!

Having spent 2 years liviing in the alps having a 4wd saloon is much easier than a full on 4wd. A lighter car with modern independant suspension is much easier to control in a skid as well.
 

24Seven

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2010
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Poole UK
Henri Stofberg said:
A 24valve 80 will do exactly what you ask from it.

The 1KZTE in the Colorado is a very unreliable engine.

I know. I have both.
Bit of a bold statement, in what way is the 1KZTE unreliable?
 
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Henri Stofberg

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Aug 30, 2010
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Musina ZA
I am not going to tell the whole story, but our Prado/Colorado is now on engine #4 and head #6 or #7. The car now is on 230,000km and whenever it goes out of town, I make sure that either it has an escort or that I am on standby.

Don't buy anything with that 1KZTE engine. The bottom end is as hard as nails, but that head is bad bad news.
 

Paul

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I am in england
Mar 1, 2010
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As much as i want to say get an 80, the Subaru idea is good. We ran them in Kazakhstan and were really good in the snow and ice with winter tyres on.

Personally though i would still use an 80 :whistle:
 

Tommo&Claire

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Mar 4, 2010
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My 90 is very good in the cold and the snow. Generally speaking performance in snow is similar to performance in mud i.e. largely a function of the tyres you are running but frankly unless you are planning on crossing an Icelandic Glacier then any of the vehicles you mentioned will be more than up to the job.

Henri Stofberg said:
I am not going to tell the whole story, but our Prado/Colorado is now on engine #4 and head #6 or #7. The car now is on 230,000km and whenever it goes out of town, I make sure that either it has an escort or that I am on standby.

Don't buy anything with that 1KZTE engine. The bottom end is as hard as nails, but that head is bad bad news.
Henri, there are lots of people on this site with 90's and lots have the with the 1KZTE engine in their trucks who would disagree with you. Properly cared for there is no reason why the KZTE is not just as reliable as any other Landcruiser engine. Yes there can be problems with the head but as long as you care for the cooling system properly then there is not reason why it should unduly let you down. In fact the same can be said for most engines with a steel block and an alloy head. By your logic the 12valve engine in the 80 series could be put down as unreliable because the big end bearings tend to let go, but we don't because we are aware of the problem and give it due care and attention.
 

Henri Stofberg

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Aug 30, 2010
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By default it will happen to an engine that has pre-combustion chambers.

Mitsubishi 2.8TD
Toyota 2LT, 3LT, 5LT, 1KZT, 1KZTE
Isuzu 2.8TD and 3.0TD

The list goes on.

I just like to get it off my chest. I just feel guilty if I have not said it.

Quote from LCCSA right now.
My sympathies with you on this one Petri, We just lost another head on one of our KZ's yesterday!,
This is now head number two in 480K on that specific KZ The problem of a cracked head does not show straight away.It normally can go about 10k after the damage was done before the first signs show of the cracked head. In our case we use the vehicle off-road 70% of the time. Somewhere along the line the bugger gets stuck and then tries to free himself by going forwards, backwards and so on. They are so frustrated about their situation that they overdo things and then right there and then the engine overheats as they are pounding the thing doing 60kph on the speedo while the vehicle is almost stationary. It will take all of 5 minutes to then overheat the engine and the first crack to appear. An average of 10K km later we have to cough for a new head when the driver pleads dead as he "did nothing wrong yesterday, it just started to over heat on the straight and flat road"

Sorry don't want to go OT or high jack your thread, this is just to make people more aware of how easily a kz can crack its head.........Maybe ask your mate if he got seriously stuck sometime in the past?
 

Tommo&Claire

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Mar 4, 2010
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Henri Stofberg said:
By default it will happen to an engine that has pre-combustion chambers.

Mitsubishi 2.8TD
Toyota 2LT, 3LT, 5LT, 1KZT, 1KZTE
Isuzu 2.8TD and 3.0TD

The list goes on.

I just like to get it off my chest. I just feel guilty if I have not said it.

So in amongst that you would include the D4D that powers all the 120's?
 

Henri Stofberg

New Member
Aug 30, 2010
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No. It does not have pre-combustion chambers. It is a direct injection head. Just like the 1HDT, 1HDFT(E). The 1HZ also has pre-comustion chambers and that is why a 1HZ with a turbo is a risk.

If you have a head that is a risk, doesn't take the EGT over 550degC. The direct injection heads handle 700degC very comfortably.


24074-004-A80F9231.gif


0904dp_03_z+diesel_engines+direct_injection.jpg
 

Chris

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I am in europe
Feb 24, 2010
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I have to agree. Saying the the 1KZ-TE is a very unreliable engine is a grossly sweeping statement. It's like saying the front axle on an 80 is unreliable. Ok this engine has a weakness, we know that but most of this is related to cooling. Typically the manual doesn't exhibit this syptom. Maybe saying the KZ has a weakness when coupled to the autobox and poor maintenance regime is a problem might be more accurate.
It also seems to affect the earlier models more. As this budget would get you a D4D powered Colorado anyway,then a 90 would be a fine choice. Excellent in snow with AT tread as well.

Chris
 

vrecha

Member
Apr 16, 2010
189
2
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Western Sahara
Agree with Chris.
Being aware of the weakness and being a sensible driver (even off-road, it is possible) minimalises the chances of cracked heads and subsequent headaches. You just don't have to be
pounding the thing doing 60kph on the speedo while the vehicle is almost stationary.
And pre-combustion chambers equals weak engine is not an equation at all by my opinion.
 

Henri Stofberg

New Member
Aug 30, 2010
47
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Musina ZA
vrecha said:
.........................
And pre-combustion chambers equals weak engine is not an equation at all by my opinion.
Pre-combustion chambers, turbo and high EGT = disaster.

Pre-combustion chambers, 1bar boost and 600degC EGT = disaster.

PS. The 1KZTE bottom end and the D4D bottom end is in essence the same. The 1KZTE bottom end is bullet proof. It is the head that is the flaw.
 

ignat

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I am in south_africa
Mar 22, 2010
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This thread has officially been 'jacked :lol: :text-threadjacked:

Henri,

Do you have an EGT gauge on your Prado? I'm curious that you've had 6 or 7 new heads. Have you been monitoring the temps, but still been having cracks?

I've been contemplating installing a egt probe for some time and I've only had ONE crack ! Given that I'm taking my Colorado from the UK down to SA where ambient temps are much higher, I want to avoid high temps as much as possible.

I'd probably be of the same opinion as you if I was on head #6.... :shock:
 

Henri Stofberg

New Member
Aug 30, 2010
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Musina ZA
Sounds like it is time for a bit of this car's history.

This car was bought new.
Bottom end 1
The first bottom end had 2 heads. Fitted by Toyota.
Bottom end 2
Then I decided I would fit a "new" motor. Also an EGT guage. This motor was ex 120 Prado.
Head was changed. So by now this motor had consumed 2 heads as well.
Bottom end 3
At this stage we decided to throw money at it. R64,000. About 5,000quid.
We gave the car to Toyota and told them to do the job and guaranteed it.
So motor 3 went in. It took them 3 months and 2 heads to give it back to us.
Then we complained that the power is bad.
Bottom end 4
So they opened the engine and found that piston 3 had broken rings.
So bottom end 4 is in with a new head and the motor is totally detuned. It feels like my 2.4 2L n/a p/u. Bone lazy.
But it is in for about 6 weeks now. So lets hold thumbs.
 

shelf

New Member
Sep 2, 2010
2
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Thanks lads, what i think i heard from the masses was that:

The 80 and 100 4.2 TD are probably my best bets.

The 90 is suspect if it overheats - which is unlikely in winter conditions, so it'll be fine.

However a 4wd car is probably just as easy to use as a landcruiser!
From this I am going to look for a 100 4.3 TD, as I do really want a land cruiser and I do really want it to start each morning.

Cheers and I hope you all get to vent as much as you want to for the rest of the thread....
 

AndyCook

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I am in scotland
Apr 16, 2010
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Old Rayne, Aberdeenshire
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between the Subaru forester and land cruiser Colorado we have, for most snow driving i prefer the Subaru
lighter and AWD system better at responding to wheel spin

but for drift bashing! and deep snow, and hauling out other stuck 4x4 the land cruiser collie wins!
 
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