Brakes feedback - 100 series pads in an 80.

G

Guest

Guest
A while back I changed my pads all round for some Milner replacements
with 100 series in the front.
Well I have about a 1000 miles on them now.
Initial breaking seems firmer, although this may be down to a fluid
flush and bleed at the same time.
The worrying thing is the pads are susceptible to fading.
I was late for a meeting yesterday and was tanking it around some local
lanes and after about 5 sharp corners, requiring hard braking, on a 1
mile stretch they were starting to fade quite badly.
Whilst my rotors are quite badly worn I suspect that Matt is right
about possible poor quality pad material being the culprit.
Ideally I would like to get some Axxis ceramic brake pads which come
highly recommended from friends with LCs abroad, but I haven't been
able to find a UK supplier.
Failing that I will just go for OEM ones.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
A while back I changed my pads all round for some Milner replacements
with 100 series in the front.
Well I have about a 1000 miles on them now.
Initial breaking seems firmer, although this may be down to a fluid
flush and bleed at the same time.
The worrying thing is the pads are susceptible to fading.
I was late for a meeting yesterday and was tanking it around some local
lanes and after about 5 sharp corners, requiring hard braking, on a 1
mile stretch they were starting to fade quite badly.
Whilst my rotors are quite badly worn I suspect that Matt is right
about possible poor quality pad material being the culprit.
Ideally I would like to get some Axxis ceramic brake pads which come
highly recommended from friends with LCs abroad, but I haven't been
able to find a UK supplier.
Failing that I will just go for OEM ones.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Julian
I was about to ask you about your brake pads today but you beat me to it.
Sorry the performance is not up to what you would expect. Compared to toyota
pads what was the cost of them. What would cause the fading, are they too
soft or hard or something else.
John C
92HDJ 80 1HD-T Ireland
 
G

Guest

Guest
Julian
That's disappointing after all that effort, and the fade sounds quite serious.
I've never had any fade on standard pads / original discs; even descending steep hills with serious loads on the back.
What I have had is stuck pistons at the front, culminating in (so far) one new caliper about a year ago. That made a really big difference to braking efficiency, and wasn't that expensive.
Christopher Bell
Devon, UK
1998 1HD-FT
| -----Original Message-----
| From: [Email address removed]
| [mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Julian Voelcker
| Sent: 09 March 2005 10:21
| To: [Email address removed]
| Subject: [ELCO] Brakes feedback - 100 series pads in an 80.
|
|
| A while back I changed my pads all round for some Milner replacements
| with 100 series in the front.
|
| Well I have about a 1000 miles on them now.
|
| Initial breaking seems firmer, although this may be down to a fluid
| flush and bleed at the same time.
|
| The worrying thing is the pads are susceptible to fading.
|
| I was late for a meeting yesterday and was tanking it around
| some local
| lanes and after about 5 sharp corners, requiring hard braking, on a 1
| mile stretch they were starting to fade quite badly.
|
| Whilst my rotors are quite badly worn I suspect that Matt is right
| about possible poor quality pad material being the culprit.
|
| Ideally I would like to get some Axxis ceramic brake pads which come
| highly recommended from friends with LCs abroad, but I haven't been
| able to find a UK supplier.
|
| Failing that I will just go for OEM ones.
| --
| Regards,
|
| Julian Voelcker
| Mobile: 07971 540362
| Cirencester, United Kingdom
| 1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
|
|
| --
| European Land Cruiser Owners Mailing List
| Further Info: http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/
|
 
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G

Guest

Guest
I think ... but check, fading is usually due to excessive heat build up
and transfer causing vapour pockets in the hydraulic fluid. Some pads
have better insulation transferring less heat - maybe why ceramic are
better. You could look at air flow to the calipers and rotors. You might
also find that 100's have a caliper that doesn't transfer so much heat
and can thus use lower quality pads.
I once had a car that was prone to fade at heavy but not unusual
braking. Just removing the dust shields fixed it. You shouldn't ignore
it though as ultimately it can cause so much fade that you can't stop or
possibly the complete opposite of a lock up. The car I mentioned had me
shoot straight over a roundabout narrowly missing other cars.
Ian.
john byrne wrote:
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi John,
Not a problem, the can only learn about these things by trying it.
Sorry, not sure of the difference - you can get the prices I paid from the
Milner site.
More often than not it is down to the actual compound - I have come across hard
and soft pads that fade equally badly or don't fade at all. The Axxis pads for
example have high levels of ceramic in the pads that doesn't get affected so
much by the heat.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi John,
Not a problem, the can only learn about these things by trying it.
Sorry, not sure of the difference - you can get the prices I paid from the
Milner site.
More often than not it is down to the actual compound - I have come across hard
and soft pads that fade equally badly or don't fade at all. The Axxis pads for
example have high levels of ceramic in the pads that doesn't get affected so
much by the heat.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
I'd recomend MINTEX.
Fronts =A341.13 inc vat
Rears =A335.25 inc vat
I find on the Land Rovers these offer the perfect braking.
Cheers,
Matt
Derbyshire, UK.
1991 HDJ80
1950 Series 1 80" Landy
1995 Audi 80 tdi
----- Original Message -----
From: Julian Voelcker
To: [Email address removed]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:20 AM
Subject: [ELCO] Brakes feedback - 100 series pads in an 80.
A while back I changed my pads all round for some Milner replacements
with 100 series in the front.
Well I have about a 1000 miles on them now.
Initial breaking seems firmer, although this may be down to a fluid
flush and bleed at the same time.
The worrying thing is the pads are susceptible to fading.
I was late for a meeting yesterday and was tanking it around some local
lanes and after about 5 sharp corners, requiring hard braking, on a 1
mile stretch they were starting to fade quite badly.
Whilst my rotors are quite badly worn I suspect that Matt is right
about possible poor quality pad material being the culprit.
Ideally I would like to get some Axxis ceramic brake pads which come
highly recommended from friends with LCs abroad, but I haven't been
able to find a UK supplier.
Failing that I will just go for OEM ones.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
--
European Land Cruiser Owners Mailing List
Further Info: http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Ian,
That is one possible cause, although running synthetic brake fluid should
in theory eradicate most of that.
I did clear out all the vents in the disks (they were totally clogged,
particularly at the back, however I am not prepared to trying to modify
anything to improve the air flow - I would rather fit better quality pads.
This indicates the problem was down to the pads overheating - removing the
dust shields would provide a better contact between the pads and the
caliper/piston improving their ability to dissipate the heat from the
pads.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Ian,
That is one possible cause, although running synthetic brake fluid should
in theory eradicate most of that.
I did clear out all the vents in the disks (they were totally clogged,
particularly at the back, however I am not prepared to trying to modify
anything to improve the air flow - I would rather fit better quality pads.
This indicates the problem was down to the pads overheating - removing the
dust shields would provide a better contact between the pads and the
caliper/piston improving their ability to dissipate the heat from the
pads.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Matt,
Hadn't thought of those - with so little info on LCs coming from abroad
I often forget about local brands.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Matt,
Hadn't thought of those - with so little info on LCs coming from abroad
I often forget about local brands.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Julian
In the US where this conversion is done a lot, the anti squeal shims are
normally left out, although one or two have left them in. I have heard of
no problems except with tightness and some resorted to grinding them down a
little. I am not aware of breaking deficiencies but nearly all had fitted
the 100 pads from Toyota genuine parts.
Anthony Graham
1994HDJ801HD-T
West Wales
UK
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Julian Voelcker
Sent: 09 March 2005 12:00
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Brakes feedback - 100 series pads in an 80.
Hi Ian,
That is one possible cause, although running synthetic brake fluid should
in theory eradicate most of that.
I did clear out all the vents in the disks (they were totally clogged,
particularly at the back, however I am not prepared to trying to modify
anything to improve the air flow - I would rather fit better quality pads.
This indicates the problem was down to the pads overheating - removing the
dust shields would provide a better contact between the pads and the
caliper/piston improving their ability to dissipate the heat from the
pads.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Julian Voelcker wrote:
>Hi Ian,
>
>
>
>>I once had a car that was prone to fade at heavy but not unusual
>>braking. Just removing the dust shields fixed it.
>>
>>
>
>This indicates the problem was down to the pads overheating - removing the
>dust shields would provide a better contact between the pads and the
>caliper/piston improving their ability to dissipate the heat from the
>pads.
>
>
No - it was the big circular type of dust / muck shield that covers the
whole rotor.
The 80's have them on the back not looked at the front recently.
Ian.
>--
>Regards,
>
>Julian Voelcker
>
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Ian,
OK then. The 80s have them front and rear, although they are
reasonably well ventilated so doubt they will have that much impact.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Ian,
OK then. The 80s have them front and rear, although they are
reasonably well ventilated so doubt they will have that much impact.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
G

Guest

Guest
Talking of pads just changed the rears - they seem to have lasted quite
a while, probably at least 20K miles and still had some meat left on
them. I plan on changing the fronts at 10K as I hear they last about
11K? I don't drive it fast so hopefully ok.
Of course there I was with a break bar on the caliper pins thinking
maybe I'd better back off and get a rag around my hand because if this
loosens suddenly it's gonna hurt and instantly that thought entered my
head ........... thwack! A piece of skin disappears and a new raw lump
appears on my knuckle. Every time I work on a car I do it - I just don't
seem to learn. :)
Ian.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Ian
Why do you need to change your brake pads at the intervals you have said ,do
you do a lot of towing etc.
The reason im asking is I had new pads put on four years ago and have done
about 70,000 miles so far and they seem fine. It will be going for its NCT
test at the end of the month so I supose that if they need replacing they
will tell me.
John C
92HDJ 80
1HD-T Ireland
 
G

Guest

Guest
I changed the rears because they haven't been done since I bought it and
was getting nervous - not for safety, for my pocket. I had the fronts go
down to the metal whilst up in the Peak District on holiday. By the time
I found a garage that could change them the same day I had damaged my
discs as well. Cost was ?300 where if I change them regularly it's more
like ?10 - ?20 for the pads.
Ian.
john byrne wrote:
 
G

Guest

Guest
Dear John,
Is the front of your vehicle all smashed up!!! Only joking!
Sorry I could resist that!!
It is down to driving. John, you clearly drive very calmly (there should be more drivers like you). My father is the same, and a good friend of mine, they never need to brake very much. And therefore don't need to change the pads... ever! Also the compound of the pad helps, we were talking about this the other day. Hard pads last for much longer.
I, on the other hand, do a lot of braking, and ALL my driving is either on country lanes or towing, so my brakes get a real good thrashing.
Must go,
See ya, Matt
Derbyshire UK
HDJ80 1991
----- Original Message -----
From: john byrne
To: [Email address removed]
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Brakes feedback - 100 series pads in an 80.
Hi Ian
Why do you need to change your brake pads at the intervals you have said ,do
you do a lot of towing etc.
The reason im asking is I had new pads put on four years ago and have done
about 70,000 miles so far and they seem fine. It will be going for its NCT
test at the end of the month so I supose that if they need replacing they
will tell me.
John C
92HDJ 80
1HD-T Ireland
--
European Land Cruiser Owners Mailing List
Further Info: http://www.landcruisers.info/lists/
 
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