Can you tell me what I paid 350 euros for please?

[jeellison]

Hi All,

Currently in Slovenia on our way to Mongolia

During the trip down to the south coast of France I noticed my steering started to feel a bit dodgy and a bit too much play in the steering - occasionally quite a scary feeling. My Mrs then noticed some oil leaking from the passenger side wheel. Looked underneath and the whole hub was covered in oil.

Rang westcoast 4x4 as they rebuilt the front axle and they said it was probably the inner axle oil seal which had gone. Went to a toyota garage which was 2 mins away and they advised it would cost 1000 euros and could do it in a weeks time. They didnt speak a word of english and my french is very limited.

Anyway ended up finding a sweet 4x4 place with loads of landcruisers all over the place and pictures of the guys winning desert rallies etc and they just started taking the wheel off instantly - Again we couldn't understand a word each other was saying apart from he said it was dangerous.

After taking the wheel off he could move the big metal thing with his hands (I dont know shit all about mechanics but this was obviously the problem) and ended up stripping the whole thing down. He worked on it solid for 3 hours and replaced the following. He said these werent original parts and the ones he put on were originals.

There were 4 bolts holding this on and 3 of them were broken/snapped which I assume was causing the dodgy steering and leak.

So my question is, as a mechanic layman : What the hell went wrong?

Cheers
James

 

[Paul]

Is that a steering swivel bearing? That would account for most of the symptoms. I'm sure someone here can post some pics but if it is you've had a lucky escape.

 

[Rob]

From what you have said it looks like your steering arm bolts had broken, and if you had carried on driving the steering arm would have detached from from the hub (the bit that the wheel is attached to) meaning you would have lost control of the steering. Looks like Westcoast 4x4 fitted non genuine swivel bearings so they replaced them with Koyo/Toyota ones as it only required a few minutes of extra labour. If they used genuine/OEM parts I would say €350 sounds about right and by the sounds of it money well spent.

 

[Chris]

It may not be the parts that failed as such but the installation - before we jump to any conclusion about sub standard parts.

Pretty serious stuff all things considered. I'd say for 350 euros, if they were local, they'd have a queue forming.

Chris

 

[LandCruiser1978]

i had the steering bolts come loose on my old 80 after having new cv's fitted

only noticed while lying underneath and looking at the front suspension and thinking bloody hell that shouldn't have a gap ..

 

[Justin_Elliott]

I've also had two out of four studs fail (through fatigue) with the other two only finger tight... I've only ever had OEM wheel bearings, so I agree with Chris - they are probably not related.

The problem appears to be caused by the bolts loosening through vibration (non-locking bolts)... They are only held in place by the bolt torque/preload - its a good pm to thread lock the studs in with a low strength loctite.

Once the bolts have loosened they will either fall out, or flex and quickly develop cracks leading to their eventual failure. As Rob stated, if they all fail you will lose all steering to one or both wheels!

Considering your location and intended journey it sounds like money well spent and considerably more saved!

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

What usually happens is that they are undone to service the swivel bearings in which case the threads in the housing and studs need to be cleaned and threadlocked when refitted otherwise they just come loose and either fall out or shear from being wacked back and forth, doesn't matter if they are genuine or aftermarket. I'd keep a close eye on that throughout your trip and hope they place you found to fix it knew what they were doing and there's no repeat.

 

[Rob]

The bearings look fine from the pics, and I agree that we should not jump to conclusions about sub standard bearings as there is clearly no evidence of bearing failure. On the other hand it is likely that this was caused by poor assembly and I would advise keeping an eye on the other side. If it were mine I would be tempted to do both sides again as it is likely to develop similar issues if it was assembled by the same person/garage.

 

[karl webster]

The bottom arm on the front ns hub that the steering bar goes to do come loose then come off completly. I have sold quite a few front complete hubs for the nearside. If you dont catch them then the hub just drops off the end of the axel. 350 euro is a very fair price.

Just to add, i have come accross this issue at least 15 times before

Karl

 

[SimonD]

Anyway ended up finding a sweet 4x4 place with loads of landcruisers all over the place and pictures of the guys winning desert rallies etc and they just started taking the wheel off instantly - Again we couldn't understand a word each other was saying apart from he said it was dangerous.

James can you post the details of the place in France that did the repair [contact/address]. Good to know where good repairers are.

 

[frank rabbets]

Sounds like the place I passed probably 100 miles from the coast going South?? Prices a bit very steep on buying a LC.

Off to France myself on Friday so just had the management shake my steering with engine running whilst I lay underneath checking the 4 studs each side. She obviously still loves me.

When I rebuilt my hubs I tried to remove the studs and loctite them in but they were unmovable so Toyota had clocked this problem by 1995?

Frank

 

[Rob]

When I rebuilt my hubs I tried to remove the studs and loctite them in but they were unmovable so Toyota had clocked this problem by 1995?

Not likely, mine was affected but this issue and it is a err (goes and checks his signature) 97

 

[frank rabbets]

I must get one of those sigs.

Perhaps a lot of off roading causes this to appear quicker then? Mine has only done about 1 mile true off road!

Frank

 

[Rob]

This is usually caused by poor assembly, mine had the swivel bearings done for an MOT before I bought it and the studs were loose

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

I've never known them be a problem unless they've been apart and if they are put back together with properly cleaned threads and thread lock it's never a problem again so long as the stud holes haven't been damaged too much by them coming loose.

 

[Roger Fairclough]

It,s possible that the cone washers had not been re-fitted when the axle had been "repaired" in the UK. Koya are OE, but there are other reputable bearing makers, just as there are rubbish ones. My local stockist has told me to steer clear of Rumanian ones.

Roger

 

[jeellison]

Hello All,

Thank you all so much for the replies.

Guess what?? literally hours after posting this I checked underneath and there was a load of oil there again - My heart sank.
I assume the oil seal was a problem along with the steering arm bolts but it wasn't changed during this??

Anyway we were in Slovenia at this point and was helped so much by the locals it was unbelievable!! We ended up at a place called marmot4x4 http://www.mamut4x4.com/ just o0utside Ljubljana. These guys were amazing, offered to put us up for the night and the oil seal was to be delivered the next day. In the end the parts would take 2 days to arrive so that gave us enough time to go and see more of Slovenia which is a AMAZING country with the friendliest people.

Whilst the oil seal was being fitted I asked if I could watch. This wasnt a problem and the chap explained to me exactly how to do it so now from knowing nothing I can change wheel bearings, swivel bearings, CV joints, inner axle oil seal, outer seals and change the front diff fluid. Think I might start my own 4x4 mechanic business when I get back now. Any takers???

James can you post the details of the place in France that did the repair [contact/address]. Good to know where good repairers are.

Sure, it was : CE-LO tout terrain, Rte de St-Gervasy 30129, Redessan. http://www.ce-lotoutterrain.com
Friendly guys, don't speak a word of English but obviously know their shitzen.

Hopefully you can help me with my new problem which I will be posting shortly.

Cheers all.
James

 

[mike54]

Rob, you're on pretty dodgy ground with a suggestion that a garage fitted sub standard parts or fitted something incorrectly and you've diagnosed this...... on the internet. Not clever.

Studs coming out is a known issue with 80s used extensively offroad or subject to a lot of vibration, mine also did it. Symptons exactly as described. New ones now in with blue loctite. Je, sounds very much like you were ripped off with the 350 euros.

 

[Rob]

Mike, read the thread again... BTW sub standard is not the same as non genuine.

Also I would suggest you remove the swivel housing, remove the studs and clean out all the grease from all the threads and then loctite the studs in. As you can see it's not a 5 min job like you suggested. A garage that specialises in LCs should know that if the studs were disturbed, even to remove the nuts then you need to do the above. This issue only occurs if the studs or stud nuts have been disturbed.

 

[mike54]

you dont need to remove the swivel housing. you let the oil run out, say overnight, then blast the threads with brake cleaner and air. i dont think many people are daft enough to try to put loctite on oiled threads.

and you explicitly suggested that west coast were at fault. a dangerous and naive game in my opinion.