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Caster issue after EFC suspension

Skindiver isn't it up to your garage to make sure what you ordered was not going to need castor correction assuming they fitted the correct kit. If it was them that supplied with the "after fitted" figures they should have advised you that the caster was not good. If they did not supply the figures surely they should have done their own measurements to make sure all was correct. It is not good practise to fit a modification and assume everything is OK. Mistakes can be made and vehicles may be different due to accident damage and previous changes.
 
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As above, I have mentioned this on numerous sites, nothing should be altered until you have a baseline to work from. The company should have taken a set of readings, point out any errors/problems and ensure they are sorted prior to any upgrades. I would approach them with the OE readings and ask if they can correct to regain the stability you had. I too have never heard of anything from the 100 front suspension going on to an 80, 105 yes, this is a posh 100 body on an 80 chassis as near as dammit.

regards

Dave
 
Yup Stu had 2 80s so far. Another one coming soon no doubt ;-) well - we hope


why'd you go for the LC5,mod it to the hilt, then sell it Gary?

i'm interested 'cause i'm in two minds which way to go
mod my LC3 to the hilt
or buy an 80

cheers
 
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As above, I have mentioned this on numerous sites, nothing should be altered until you have a baseline to work from. The company should have taken a set of readings, point out any errors/problems and ensure they are sorted prior to any upgrades. I would approach them with the OE readings and ask if they can correct to regain the stability you had. I too have never heard of anything from the 100 front suspension going on to an 80, 105 yes, this is a posh 100 body on an 80 chassis as near as dammit.

regards

Dave

Yesterday I called the distributor. ( not the installer) The first thing he did was assure me he would stand by his products.
I asked about the 100 series kit being the same as the 80. He explained that the 100GX has a solid axle and is indeed the same. The said the 100VX has independent susp and is different.

He is perplexed why I lost so much caster and said after fitting a "thousand:" of these he has never had to use more than a 2.5 bush to correct a 2 inch lift. The only way he could see it happening is if my car lifted more than it should have. ( wrong springs ?)
I said I would bring him the before and after paperwork and he could figure it out. We started talking about 5.5 degree caster plates which he said they used for 5-6 inch lifts. Fitting that would imply returning the caster bushes back to OEM though. He was going to see if he had stock of these.
I undertook to drive the rough roads this weekend and see if the car tracks straight or if its still all over the show. I will let him know on Monday. I will keep you all in the loop with the outcome.

Thanks for all your input so far.

Greg
 
Skindiver isn't it up to your garage to make sure what you ordered was not going to need castor correction assuming they fitted the correct kit. If it was them that supplied with the "after fitted" figures they should have advised you that the caster was not good. If they did not supply the figures surely they should have done their own measurements to make sure all was correct. It is not good practise to fit a modification and assume everything is OK. Mistakes can be made and vehicles may be different due to accident damage and previous changes.

Hi Frank. I totally agree with you. I was never told about a possible need for caster correction. More than that, they handed the car back with the alignment report showing -2'34" of caster with a smile.
Even now their rhetoric is that some cars need it but most don't so they don't "really" mention it. The truth is I suppose that they don't want to chase a sale away with you fearing the probability of spending another 4k for a correction kit and walking away from doing the suspension at all. So they keep quiet and hope you are one of those that doesn't notice the change in tracking.
 
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Yesterday I called the distributor. ( not the installer) The first thing he did was assure me he would stand by his products.
I asked about the 100 series kit being the same as the 80. He explained that the 100GX has a solid axle and is indeed the same. The said the 100VX has independent susp and is different.

I knew there was one. that was odd.
if you need plates Karl makes some and i could bring over in march if you can wait that long.
 
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Learn something new everyday, I have never seen a 100 GX or any other 100 for that matter with a solid axle, why the 105 then? This is essentially a 100 body on an 80 chassis to gain a solid axle in a more modern looking car.

Hmmm confused........

regards

Dave
 
Cannot find a reference to a 100GX with SFA anywhere. 105 - yes. I can smell cr@p here - and there's a reason it's called Suffer-ye Centre ...
A quick check on the EFS website followed by a mail to them in Oz should clear it all up I think with new suspension being put on in place of what you have.

Sterkte!
 
They'll be snowed under if they suddenly have "a thousand" people coming back for caster correction :icon-biggrin:. I have no direct experience of these conversions but can't think that the car is going to steer correctly with negative caster. Be really good high speed in reverse round bumpy bends though :icon-biggrin:.
 
I did read that there is a model of '100' series that has a solid front axle only but not sure if that is the GX they state in the part number maybe check with efs head office then go back to the safari center. I have not been impressed with there knowlage when asked questions about the products they sell. even with a Africans translater.......Stu

Stu, is that not the 105? Or do you mean a 100 with a solid axle? If you're right, I'm more confused than I thought :lol:
 
There is a basic spec 100 in SA. I heard that it had a sfa but was not classed as a 105 for some reason. Not seen one or anything. Will look for one when i go down soon as want to look at a 105
 
Still think you guys are barking up a variety of trees :)

The kit he has been sold is wrong for the 80 series. Period. If it was the same kit as the 105 that would be one thing but as things stand that is not shown by EFS to be a valid 80 GX kit.

Safari Centre need to take it off and replace with what he wants, or refund a lot of money ...
 
Stu the only '100' series in SA are 105's (commonly referred to as 100's) or 100vx with IFS. There are a few grey import GXLs around too. Toyota only brought in the 105 GX in petrol or non-turbo diesel and places like Table Bay Motors brought in the VX and Lexus versions.

I still can find no Toyota reference to a 100GX. With SFA. Nada...
Cheers
 
Google "land cruiser 100 gx" brings up a fair few references. Looking at the images, some are definitely SFA.
 
May an Aussie shed some light on this model designation, because we have all the above here.
Essentially the 80 series came out as the FJ80, FZJ80 petrols, and HZJ80 & HDJ80 diesel models, all with a solid front axle of course. (Still the best 4WD on earth in my unbiased opinion :icon-biggrin: )
Then in Oz in 1998 Toyota released the FZJ105 and HZJ105, petrol and diesel solid front axle models which many people commonly referred to as a 100 series, albeit incorrectly. They are a 105 series with similar suspension specs as the 80.
Toyota then released the UZJ100, HDJ100 in petrol and diesel with an IFS front end using torsion bars.
I assume the same model releases are available in SA.

Reading and trying to understand the castor issues from this side of the screen has been interesting to say the least. I deal with this everyday and it astounds me the amount of change created by a mere 2" lift. That said a saggy front suspension will create a positive biased reading on castor and this should be considered when interpreting the new figures.
But the still remaining -Ve castor outcome is very odd.
That said, we always offer castor correction with any lift, because our opinion is that delivering correct steering geometry is part of the installers task. There are a lot of reasons why steering axis points sit where they do, and a professional should not disregard this importance ever.

But in my view, given I have limited knowledge of the case and can only go on the info from the OP, it is hard to point the issue at the suspension components used as such. The mentioned 'excessive lift' is one possibility, but this would be very noticeable in relation to the height change. I know we measure very carefully at every step when fitting suspension, a total of four times to ensure we understand the outcome exactly. I'd hope the OPs installer has done that.
The description of 'tracking' and severe wandering certainly suggests poor castor angle, and the first thing to point at is the installer or components. We call this 'Sinshu' . Sinshu installed my......
However before I would start presenting the components/brand to the firing squad, I would suggest a thorough inspection of associated parts and steering components. Unfortunately change in itself can sometimes bring out issues that may have otherwise not given cause for concern in their 'usual' running state.

But the basic geometry design of the 3 link front on a 105 series Landcruiser suggests the differential is rotated too far forward, obviously from lack of castor correction, but 2.5 or even 3.5 degree offset castor bushes may struggle to correct this particular example. Bent knuckles can also cause this, but I am merely guessing now because I'm not there. But worth looking at more than just the installed suspension.
Castor correction should have been fitted though, that is a given. But 5.5+ degree plates will not work, don't go there. The track rod at the back of the diff across the radius arms will foul on the arms at this minimal lift.
Find the real issue and this will solve the problem. Start with a set of offset castor correction bushes.

Just my 2c.

Cheers
 
All good stuff Chris :thumbup:

I had a problem with camber, where one wheel appeared by eye to be "vertical" and the other had noticeable positive camber, i.e. the top of the tyre leaning outwards.

After researching the availability of offset swivel bearings, including buying a set but they turned out to be 70 Series bearings :icon-rolleyes: I gave up and replaced the axle casing. The knuckle on the offending side was indeed bent from an earlier very heavy impact.

BTW, I did find a supplier of 80 Series offset swivel bearings, can't remember the name but if anybody needs it, pm me and I'll look into it again, a very friendly and helpful bunch of guys in the USA. :thumbup:
 
Hi Clive. Fitting offset kingpin plates is a bit of a bandaid approach though, in my view, as it doesn't really fix the bent knuckle, but certainly corrects some symptoms. But also useful for import issues where LHD and RHD vehicles can be corrected for road camber, to some degree.
We keep a few handy.

image.jpg
 
Great detail. I still don't believe the hardware is to blame - I know and have used that particular supplier before and was less than impressed. I still think they've fitted the wrong kit, they certainly didn't take any baseline values to compare against so now they need to suck it up and sort it - they haven't really got a case except to put it all back to where it was and start again. They've done no diagnostic investigation as far as we can tell - is something else out of spec there that's a contributor?? The known-unknowns are already a good list - the unknown-unknowns could be huge until they get specialist advice.

They are just a simple sell and fit operation IMHO. And not particularly good ....
 
Agreed Chris, the set I got (which were for a 70 though) were offset bearings, where the centre race was offset in a specially machined outer race. They were good up to 2 degrees in any direction you choose, balancing top against the bottom.

I can't see how the device in your picture workspace an 80, maybe I'm just dim. :lol:
 
............ they certainly didn't take any baseline values to compare against so now they need to suck it up and sort it ....


And there is the problem. Couldn't agree with you more Gary.
If any suspension provider fails to ask detailed questions, and fails to start by measuring and understanding exactly what they are dealing with is asking for trouble. Fair call if that's what you've found and has occurred.
Im in no way claiming angelic status, I'm still human, but not stupid enough to leave myself open to issues like this.
Well the stupid bit could be argued I guess....... :icon-biggrin:


Oh, and Clive, there is more than just what's in the box......
 
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