dogs advice

[jonnyboy54321]

All

I'm fairly new here, am always interested in others' point of view, so I hope you don't mind me posting this thread?
Myself and both daughters have yearned for a dog for years, Mrs JB has never been that keen (her family all are dog-haters, a couple of them were bitten way way back I suspect). She is well and truly coming around to the idea though, and I am slowly encouraging her, a good by-product of it would be that it would help get her and eldest daughter out of the car and onto foot as they could do with it for health reasons, but this is only a small part of the reasoning. As a gardener I am always outdoors, several of my sites would not have an issue with me having a dog there (controlled of course). We know most of the common pitfalls - cost/hassle/damage around the house/liability to others/being tied down/kennels etc. We'd also have to overcome the reluctance from the wider family and the likes.
However:-
I'm just interested in the whole selection process, and what focusses/drives/inspires potential owners? I have a customer who has two siberian huskies, and they are (filter) gorgeous. So incredibly loving towards you as soon as they have said hello for the first time, hers are both females, and were rescue dogs. They can be a bit flighty though which is I guess part of their nature. Someone working close by approached my client and asked if she fancied a 3rd one, a male, as he was in a bad family situation (divorce?) however my client declined as she has enough on her plate, this is where I come in !! I love her two dogs to bits, in fact I always look forward to going there for that reason (although I get the hump at the pee patches on her lawn!!!).
So I guess I am looking for some general advice, on breeds, male vs female, and on pedigree vs heinz varieties, and puppy vs trained vs adult rehome/rescue?

Thanks guys

 

[Chris]

What's going to happen here is that people will tell you all about THEIR dog. Oh I had a killer attack dog that was rejected by their psychotic owners who trained him to bite on command and he was a soft as a brush. We let him play with our baby whilst we went to the pub - you should get one. Sort of thing. It's a real can of worms. Dogs are dogs. Four feet and smelly at both ends. With work, all dogs can be made to do pretty much anything and everything excepts one thing. And that's their in bred traits. All dogs have a particular characteristic. Some love to chase, some love to herd, some love to sleep and some are fat and useless like their owners. When push comes to shove, these traits come out. I know people with Staffies - Karl has Poppy for example and she's a cutie. I have never seen her attack any one. And I'm sure she won't. But latent in there somewhere IS a trait and it's not to fetch slippers. In my experience, the more bred they are (to pedigree standards) the more messed up some of them become. But not all breeds are really show dogs and they don't get bred so intensively. Others though have even been the subject of investigations such as the Rhodesian Ridgeback (sorry Gary). There are some common breeds in there that you can't really go wrong with like Labs, just don't give the chocolate.

Whatever you get, the most important thing is understanding a dog. They need Exercise, Discipline and Affection in THAT order. They are not people. They must know their place in the family. When I come down in a morning, I greet my wife, Son, Daughter then after a pause, the dog. He knows he's bottom of the pack. All that he wants to know is where he is. Dogs don't think Oh I wish I was second. He has the run of the kitchen and that's it. No sitting on the sofa, no going upstairs on the bed. He eats after we eat and is never fed from the table. You have to do this stuff for his sake. Heinz or at least cross breeds tend be be far less complicated and rescue dogs can be fantastic too. But just consider the above advice. A highly bred pedigree in killer attack format? Really?

I think it's easier to say what not to get than it is to say what you should get. Look at some websites to see the traits of each breed, but remember that the number one is exercise. All dogs MUST have exercise. Much of the bad behaviour is from frustration at lack of exercise. Now a Springer needs a minimum of 1000 kilometres per day because they're mental. But don't think that a little lap dog doesn't need a walk because they do.

 

[yogi]

I think if your getting a 'first' family dog, your probably better off getting a Lab or something similar from a rescue centre. Chances are it'll already be house trained (ish) and it'll be friendly and simple.

Siberian Huskies are lovely, but like similar breeds bred for a 'purpose' that involves protection (obviously on top of sled pulling!) they can be hard work, nervous and quite threatening. Its not their fault as such, its just their innate temperament. Its not that I don't like them, but its just that they don't sound like what your looking for.

The other good thing about a Lab is if you don't exercise it, it'll get fat and sick!! Its a great incentive to get the ladies in your life out running around after it.

Getting one from a rescue centre is a great way of getting a dog because
(A) you are doing your good deed for the day by rehoming it
(B) you can give it back if it doesn't work out
(C) they are generally helpful and provide bucket loads of information about caring for your first dog
(D) the dog will have all its vaccines and worming up to date, so its unlikely to try and die of parvo or something equally nasty a couple of weeks after you get it and leave you with a MASSIVE vet bill and a funeral to attend.

Hope that's a help.

 

[froggy Steve]

As a 3 lab man (oops 2 cos we lost one a few weeks ago) Labs are the best dog ever! Yellow ones, black ones and Choccy ones.....but, and this is a big but, they need leadership! Just like any dog I guess, but a Lab can be very headstrong. Go to a training class, put up with their whims, cos they are great. I am sitting here typing this and Danny has turned up with a sock, stolen from the ironing basket, its a scuze me, I am here plea, they also love to chew - luckily, none of mine have eaten anything worse than my fig tree, but they can, thats why some are found in shelters. However, training and love & attention will turn them. If at all possible, get a rescue of any flavor, (grey hounds are smashing) you will be well rewarded.
hth
Steve
ps NEVER buy any dog from a puppy farm, see BOTH parents, their home and other puppies!

 

[Lorin]

I'll add my two bits.... Cross breeds and mongrels (there is a difference) are far less prone to expensive and upsetting health problems, and are cheaper to insure. They also often 'dilute' the specific breed characteristics which can be a good thing. The only real downside is you're never quite sure whether you'll get a real mix of traits or get something more like one of the parents. Chris is spot on by saying do a little reading/research and get a sense of what you'd like in a dog and which breeds offer it. The selected traits that are bred for in certain breeds tend to be VERY strong, and especially so in the working breeds. Also be aware of the behavioural differences between the sexes and the changes that occur through neutering and spaying.

 

[Cptsideways]

Good stuff, can I suggest you & your kids "borrow" some friends dogs for a weekend, walkies in the rain, feeding, poop scooping, cleaning up, brushing, hoovering the house etc etc.


Be careful committing to an unknown dog, can lead to pain if the not to distant future especially the case with strong breeds

 

[jonnyboy54321]

Ach I have a bit of a confession. I lifted the OP from another forum I frequent, it was a little while ago. Should have re-read it properly as the Husky was a big no-no - I spent a long time with my client who advised against for two reasons - firstly the dog had been "spoiled" ie she didn't think it would re-train, and secondly because we are first timers.
We saw a Field Spaniel at a quirky philanthropic-type rescue centre locally, he was a lovely thing, but it was just before we went on hols so timing was out. He was lively but not too jumpy if you know what I mean. Not 100% that he was the right size for Mrs JB. I caught her looking at dogs for sale websites over the weekend though so that's quite some progress! She was looking at Shih-Tzu's though.....!
It goes without saying though, if you know of a dog....

 

[Paddler Ed]

My position: Parents have had Golden retrievers since 1987, and are up to dog #3 and 4 now. The last 3 dogs have all come from the same breeder, who is meticulous with who her dogs go to. She will turn round to someone and say "I don't think this dog (or a dog) is suitable for you" Sometimes she gets talked out of it, and it works out OK, but unfortunately she does sometimes end up with a dog coming back. With breeders, good ones are a pain in the arse to deal with... they love their dogs like their children and only want you to do the best for them. Mum still (17 years after we got our first dog from this breeder) has disagreements with the breeder about how she looks after the dogs, but it's all good because she stays in touch with the breeder.

Make sure you know what the breed problems are; hips/ears/eyes/etc. Certain breeds are prone to problems that can lead to painful lives later on, and shorter life span. This is mainly a problem with some of the larger breeds, and desirable breeds.

Watch for dogs that are from working stock; this is particularly for gun dogs, herding dogs, guard-type dogs and terriers. We had a neighbour who had a very well behaved German Shepherd, but she was from working stock; very obedient, but very intimidating for those who did not know her. Our first retriever would run rings round in the woods, but in a straight line the GSD would have her. GF's parents have a Jack Russell bitch from a game keeper; she's an awesome ratter/mouser/squirrel killer, but I wouldn't want to leave her with a toddler/baby, as she is snappy and protective of her toy that is her puppy when she used to have her phantom pregnancies...

What would I get? I don't know; I'd like a running dog/one that likes water, because we'd like to be able to take it mountain biking and canoeing! I'd also like it to have a brain somewhere... retrievers do have a brain, but ours play "who has the brain cell today", and if it's the old dog "where did I leave it?" I like the idea of a beagle, as they're a good size and a good runner... but they can get their head down and follow a scent so good luck with getting them to come back!

As Steve has said, retrievers are scallies of the nth degree; our old dog has always been a nightmare, from being a puppy she's been a shoe carrier (funny watching a puppy trying to drag round a crampon compatible size 12 walking boot!) and does a parade lap with what ever she has stolen. Likewise, dirty washing isn't safe... But the dog does do swaps as well, so sometimes you have to back track along her theft route to find everything!

Also dogs will live up to their names... the old dog is called Hodi, for those who have done some African travels you might recognise it from Swahili... and yep, it's a great name for her!

In terms of taking it to work; the window cleaner at my parent's brings his spaniel with him, the dog tends to stay in the van, with the door open, but will get out and have a run round with the 2 retrievers for 5 minutes, and then everything settles down again.

Ask around as well; if you see a nice looking dog of the sort you like, ask where it came from, and what problems there are with that breed.

Good Luck!

 

[froggy Steve]

Even within the same breed, they can be completely different personality wise! Our Cassy (we lost her recently) was 100% my dog, but more importantly, I cannot remember any 'naught' incident - well maybe one,a long time ago. One night at my neighbors house, we were having appero's, and in walks Cassy with a duck breast, stuffed with Foie Gras in her mouth - not eaten, just bringing it to me to see if she could eat it! She had found several of them, hanging up in the fireplace drying............my neighbor (puts on French accent) went ooo la la a few times, took it from her and hung it back up! She used to come with us to work, and did no more than find a stick and chew it up until we had finished -#2 and #3 totally different and would bugger off for ages, chasing deer, sheep and anything else they could find.......Chose wisely, you will be with them a long time, holidays are more difficult, so are a lot of other things, but I would not be without a pooch!
Steve

 

[moggy1968]

If you get a dog from a rescue centre you inherit all the problems someone else has inflicted on it, it's in a rescue centre for a reason. My parents have had their last 6 or so dogs from rescue centres and they have all taken time, patience and hard work to get them sorted. It's very rewarding, but also hard work and they don't necessarily make the best family pets. some of them have been quite snappy. Although with work that has improved, we still never leave the grandchildren alone with them and watch them very carefully when the children are about.

Labs are very popular for a reason, they do make great family pets. Interestingly though, lab bites are the ones most commonly seen in A&E, but that is probably because of their popularity and sheer numbers. They do like to chew though!! it's usually a phase and they get through it, having eaten all your possessions in the meantime!!

we have had black, golden (yellow) and chocolate labs and I would say avoid chocolate, they tend to be more difficult.

get a dog as a puppy from a reputable breeder and bond with it from the beginning to mould it how you want it to be rather than inheriting someone elses problems dog.

As an aside, my wife's friend is a maxillo facial surgeon at one of the main national plastics units and she has been put off mixing dogs with children for life! That's her opinion from a rather distorted and one sided view, but worthy of consideration non the less. She sees the very worst of what can go wrong. Dogs can be tremendously loyal and loving, and protective of your children but, as has been suggested above, you have to be aware of their natural traits. dogs bred for hunting have that innate trait still in them, it won't have been bred out in 3 or 4 generations (or 10 or 12) of comfy home living.

 

[jonnyboy54321]

Interestingly I spent some time with a supplier today. He has a one year old "small" black lab who is a stunning boy and so incredibly well behaved. He's had him from 12 weeks, we were out in his van and he just sat quietly with his paw on my knee, occasional snuffle and doggy smile if you know what I mean.
This chap has 3 dogs, a spaniel (rescue), a lurcher (rescue) and the lab (pup). Had dogs from being a boy.
He advised against a rescue dog, said he wouldn't do it again, similar reasons to the above post.
Interesting....

 

[froggy Steve]

Mmmmmm, should have sort of added there is (could be) a lot more work with a rescue - #2 Lola is so well behaved now I sort of forgot - Dawn had to go to dog training 1 x a week for a year! Mind you, the next step after us was death. We were her 5th owners and when we got her she was 10m old......no wonder she was a fruit cake! She still can be a pain, around 20.30 hrs - (treat time) whinge whinge whinge, but she is a good watch dog! She is now nearly 10 yrs, and has had a pretty good thing going on since she arrived!
Steve

 

[PETE BELL]

I think you need to decide what you want from a dog and that will help you decide what to go for but the breed characteristics are not written in stone ,they can vary so much . one of the best dogs I had was a GSD that went shooting with me ,brilliant retriever and game finder and on the other end of the scale I had a springer spaniel of very good breeding that was thick as mince and liked to bite people and would fight with his shadow

 

[Potshot]

As a gundog trainer and breeder for nearly thirty years I can say on balance you have got good advice. Excerise, socialisation and training are essential - to keep a good dog good you never stop training - any anti-social habits you allow your dog to do then you are effectively training it do it. The first word my dogs learn is NO afetr that everything is progress.

To say the mongrels are healthier or don't have serious problems only promotes the 'myth' of hybrid vigour in dogs - with pedigree dogs there are not MORE problems it is just that they are mostly known about and recorded - so using these records, and doing proper research, you can avoid or reduce the chance of having these problems.

You might be incredibly lucky and pick up a 'near perfect' dog from the rescues but you are far more likely to pick up someone else's problem dog. So do loads of research on which breed, then research the breeders, then go and see their dogs so you can make an informed choice.

I would promote gundogs wouldn't I but the basic ones ie retrievers or spaniels make good pets (avoid HPR's and pointers and setters) but as per the previous warning spaniels need to a lot to keep them occupied. Within the working side of gundogs there is a full range of dogs from highly bred Field trial dogs to just good working dogs - so again do your research but what I would recommend is a well bred good working strain retriever.

 

[froggy Steve]

Hows this for Timing? I got an email today from the guide dog school in Bordeaux. We got our Danny dog (see profile pic) from them when he failed his medical after puppy walking, he has a bit of a dodgy hip, (no good if you have to get up to go to work everyday). They have 2 Chocky boys and 2 yellow girls looking for homes, all about 1 year old, done the basics, but not suited to become guide dogs.........Free........a donation is always gratefully received.....having lost #1 Labby earlier in the year, I feel the need for another Lab, (a chocky one at that) to complement the other 2!...........a 3rd will certainly scupper short term plans for a holiday (last was 4 years ago) and I might need an 80 with a bigger boot!
As hwmbo is in the UK doing the parent thing, I might surprise her!
Steve

 

[jonnyboy54321]

Timing eh?
I responded to Karls thread on here about helping someone with a tow - my response was that I had helped a Discovery 2 owner with some diagnostic work as I still had my Nanocom. We were all saying how nice helping someone makes you feel...
This led me to advertise the Nanocom on the d2 forum, a great group of lads to be fair, and also respond to the "thanks to JB for diag" thread. Promised myself not to do the whole "view new posts" thing as I haven't been on that forum for quite a while and it would take forever!!
The very next thread down ? "Puppies"
So it looks as if we may have a Border Collie/working dog booked for the end of December. Still deciding and investigating as we know they are a lot of work. What do you do though? Fate...?

 

[froggy Steve]

go for it, but keep him/her occupied!
Well, it looks like we will end up with a Choccy Lab, 10m old with slightly Dodgy elbows, called Louri (pron Yuri????) might change that to Yorkie/Hershey, depends how he reacts to a new name! All a little up in the air, but if someone wants him before I get back from UK next week (leave Wed 6th, return 12th/13th) I will miss out However Director of Guide dog school knows we want him, and we have had one before, so we have an advantage. They now want a 250€ 'donation' which is fair enough, I think we gave something like that for the Dan dog.
Roll on 12th! Piccies to follow

Steve

 

[froggy Steve]

Well, the new boy arrived today -a choccy lab boy, 10 months old and failed his guide dog medical after puppy walking (dodgy elbows) but meet Iouri (Yuri),He has been here for 3 hours and now rules the roost! Well not quite, but I have never met a better winder upper than me, until today! He has chased the chickens from the garden, eaten half the lawn, stood upto an attack from Lola, stirred Danny into a frenzy ,now Dan is collapsed on the sofa, Lola is hiding and the chooks wont come back! He pees for France, begs food like a starving monster and cant walk on the lead, but apart from that, has settled in well! He was here for 2 mins and found the doggy toy box, which is now empty with all toys everywhere. Serious training starts tomorrow. Danny and he are the best of mates, Iouri has been dragging him round by the collar, so I have had to take it off. Oh boy, what have we let ourselves in for? He is going to fit right in Smile

 

[jonnyboy54321]

Nice story Steve.
We pulled out of the Border Collie. The Aussie Red was a stunning combination but not the right dog for us (Mrs JB !!!) as first timers. I took advice from a pro dog trainer, that was his take on it. There's a rescue centre close to us who seem to get an alarming amount of BC's - a lot from Wales (farm country of course). The trainer reckons most of his work over the last 3 years has been BC's - both rescue dogs and pups, just to try and "turn" them into family pets. Glad I spoke to him.
Good luck with the mental Choco !!!

 

[moggy1968]

Looking great, feet well under the table

going back to the original conversations about rescue dogs, I presume you all heard about the ghastly incident the other week with the little girl killed by a rescue dog.