Drive train - how much?

[Rodger]

A friend who is planning to build up an 1985 BJ73 (the 73 has a dead VM 5 cyl) using a 60 series engine, etc has been offered an complete drive train from a 60 series that was used as a donor for the sellers 60 series restoration.

Trying to get an idea of how much the complete drive train cost. Any help, guidance, past experience would help. As both parties know each other and they don't want to rip the other off, what's a fair price?

Regards,

Rodger

 

[Ben Stratford]

If it were for a complete 2H engine, 5 speed gearbox and transfer box plus prop shafts and axles from a running vehicle then not knowing condition I would say £2.5k. If a 12 H-T engine then £4k.
Condition is key and if recently overhauled then even better but if from a non runner then perhaps £1k less and expect to overhaul everything.
Each to their own, but thats my estimation

 

[stumog]

He would be better buying a 80 series as they are cheaper then a good 60.

 

[StarCruiser]

I was thinking 80 series and have the more powerful engine if it all fits of course.

 

[kombivan]

OK not 100% famaliar with the BJ 73 think you might be best off rebuilding the engine and do the turbo at the same time. The value will drop if you chop and change stuff I assume its diesel well thats the way to go.
With a conversion you would have a 2h engine the diff housings possibly wouldn't fit as the housing mounts would be different the rear springs would be different you would have to cut and weld front and rear tailshafts in a machine shop. electrics would be different I assume then will the engine pipe or extractors fit. If the diff centers could be changed then allot of the above cost would dissappear that is if the axles fit in the centres etc will the origonal gearbox fit or not then there are the linkages how is the speedo going to be set up that would be connected to the current gearbox so you would need an adapter for the speedo cable if you change the box At least the clutch should be hydraulic and just a hose required if yours don't fit You will need the best braking system of the two that could have a bearing on your dif housing choice and does the handbrake cable fit. Where is the fuel shut off relay pay to get that rebuilt but don't buy a supposidly refurbished one from etivc with a number from Ipswitch he is just a wrecker selling sht parts under the guise of refurbished my fuel control relay refurbished I paid 350.00 for lasted two weeks I had the then send it to Towomba and get it rebuilt for 200.00. Then you have a raidator and are the hoses the correct way around as I imagine there could be a difference but don't know if there is. Now with the HJ60 engine if it still has the original engine pipe chances are that NO.5 fire ring is burnt out you will need to whip the heads off to check that then you open a whole new can of worms.
If your engine won't start or starts like it has a flat battery could be you glow plugs are burnt out and the compressin is leaving the combustion chamber via the glow plugs. Aero start is usually used to start a car that has burnt out glow plugs. An auto elect may test your glow plugs and tell you they are good but if he doesn't remove and visually inspect them as well he won't know there is a hole in the bottom of them right now there is about 1000 guys sighing and throwing town their hats curcing them selves for giving a perfectly good cruiser away.

 

[Rodger]

Some good points above. Thank you.
The BJ73 engine - VM unit with 5 separate ali heads (which are all expanded beyond recovery according to VM) are nearly £300 each plus h/gaskets at £150 for the 5 (£1650 and the rest) - is beyond economical repair but it is mated to an H55f box. It has no rust but the interior needs work but is complete.
The 60 series has been used as a donor for the resto of one that was somewhat better - but engine runs etc and it was driven to its current location but now has no interior, is missing several panels, doors, etc.. Mechanics on the resto truck are fine so the seller has no need for it and measurements suggest it would fit.
So, although an 80 is newer technology, he wants to go with a 60 series (2H) having considered everything from 3ltr up that's available (Toyota only). A 3B would go straight in but he wants the extra low down grunt of the 2H.
So if he can get it for around £1500 it is still cheaper than just the heads for what was a very unreliable VM engine (which hasn't been run for 20 years).
Thanks

Regards,
Rodger

 

[kombivan]

Is the 2h compatible with the H55f gearbox? Note the early HJ6 0's have different diff and gearbox to the 85 HJ60 the early have 4 speed box with lower ratio diffs and the 83 on have 5 speed gearbox with a higher ratio diff than the 82 and earlier just somthing to note if your hunting bits there can be a difference. If you have a mate in the mechanic trade you might be able to get wholesale price on the parts you need they can be very cheap wholsale and search ebay for the parts you need or better still get a s/h engine that is a goer. Try the wreckers for an engine somtimes you might find the same engine in a different toyota model the 5 cylinder engine would be better and more powerful as it has no cylinders working against the firing stroke and run smoother.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

A 2H engine is period so is ok but the bellhousing may well be different but the right one will be on the 60 box.
If I'm reading it right the BJ just needs the engine?
I've just sold a good box to fellow member for £300 , a price we were both happy with.
Engines are a bit subjective on price. I only sell low mileage engines with provenance and they go for £6-800.

Heater plugs can easily be tested for continuity to see if they work. Although I've had more than 30 60's I've never had the no5 cyl problem . If this engine starts easily the glow plugs are ok, if its difficult but trying don't use starter fluid without disconnecting the glow plugs power source as the ones which are working will ignite prematurely and break rings etc. Poor starting is not usually an injector problem.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Is the 2h compatible with the H55f gearbox? Note the early HJ6 0's have different diff and gearbox to the 85 HJ60 the early have 4 speed box with lower ratio diffs and the 83 on have 5 speed gearbox with a higher ratio diff than the 82 and earlier just somthing to note if your hunting bits there can be a difference. If you have a mate in the mechanic trade you might be able to get wholesale price on the parts you need they can be very cheap wholsale and search ebay for the parts you need or better still get a s/h engine that is a goer. Try the wreckers for an engine somtimes you might find the same engine in a different toyota model the 5 cylinder engine would be better and more powerful as it has no cylinders working against the firing stroke and run smoother.

I don't know if its different where you are but in the UK all 2H manuals from the first one imported had 3.7 diffs and the autos had 4.1 diffs. They never changed diff ratios here.

 

[kombivan]

The reason there is a problem with Number 5 cylinder is because all the cylinders exhaust pass N0.5 cylinder due to the design of the exhaust manifold. Second you can tested for continuity of the glow plugs to see if they work but this does not tell you if there is a hole in the part of the glow plug that is exposed to the heat in the combustion chamber . I am the second owner of my cruiser and had it for 19 years now and number 5 was burnt away well before 300,ooo Kilometers I fixed it at 318,000 kilometers new dry sleeves actually did the whole engine gearbox transfer case and f & R diffs and put diff Locks in it.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

The reason there is a problem with Number 5 cylinder is because all the cylinders exhaust pass N0.5 cylinder due to the design of the exhaust manifold. Second you can tested for continuity of the glow plugs to see if they work but this does not tell you if there is a hole in the part of the glow plug that is exposed to the heat in the combustion chamber . I am the second owner of my cruiser and had it for 19 years now and number 5 was burnt away well before 300,ooo Kilometers I fixed it at 318,000 kilometers new dry sleeves actually did the whole engine gearbox transfer case and f & R diffs and put diff Locks in it.

Well everydays a school day. Just so I understand, is it the top piston ring we are talking about or the end of the glow plug on no.5 cyl?

 

[StarCruiser]

My gut says the cheapest and best way is to properly rebuild the existing VM engine, then you have the correct engine, now reliable, and you don't have a can of worms in trying to swap lots of parts.

Things that look more economical in theory, rarely are in practice.

 

[Ben]

My gut says the cheapest and best way is to properly rebuild the existing VM engine, then you have the correct engine, now reliable, and you don't have a can of worms in trying to swap lots of parts.

Things that look more economical in theory, rarely are in practice.

Their shit engines though and not even made by Toyota!

Id go 12HT personally, their awesome engines!

 

[StarCruiser]

Their shit engines though and not even made by Toyota!

Id go 12HT personally, their awesome engines!

Just shows how little my gut knows about the 70 series. Or it's owner for that matter.

Young Sam knows more about the 70 series than I do…and he's only just over a week old.
Probably gets read the service manual at bedtime…

I can't imagine there's a better solution than what Ben's just tabled.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Their shit engines though and not even made by Toyota!

Id go 12HT personally, their awesome engines!

I agree Ben, awesome but a good low mileage/rebuilt one will need a thick wallet. Putting a Toyota engine from one Cruiser to another with a donor vehicle to work from won't be difficult. IIRC they or a variant of the VM were fitted to Range Rovers in the early 80's ( I think) and look what a success they weren't.

As to the value, it would be enhanced as its a far better thing with a 2H than a VM pile of what Ben said. If you want more power fit a turbo to the 2H.

 

[kombivan]

Why not just get an 80 series and scrap what you have. Sell it for parts would bring you some money.

 

[kombivan]

The gearing of the diffs was changed a little for the engine to trrn the wheels a bit easier in fith gear the fourth gear in both boses is the same ratio but the diffs a bit different for the extra gear.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

The gearing of the diffs was changed a little for the engine to trrn the wheels a bit easier in fith gear the fourth gear in both boses is the same ratio but the diffs a bit different for the extra gear.

Ok thanks for that, I stand educated.