eu in or out poll

[Paddler Ed]

An interesting read from the Economist on the whole process of trade negotiations and the needed efforts to negotiate the deal.

What I can say at the moment is that the pound has dropped nearly 10% against the Aussie Dollar at the moment, and that's not because the Aussie economy is picking up that much (although it is better than when Abbott was in charge contrary to Ben's opinion) but rather I suspect because of uncertainty of the whole EU debacle - the only good news is that the value of exports from the UK are getting cheaper again.

 

[Rob Cowell]

An interesting read from the Economist on the whole process of trade negotiations and the needed efforts to negotiate the deal.

Proving that both sides show just the stats that back them up. The graph showing the % of West German imports from the UK stops in 1980. But West Germany didn't cease to exist until 1990. I assume the trade figure dipped after 1980 and so doesn't prove the point as much as the author would like. Because I broadly agree with the rest of the article it annoys me intensely the author did this because it gives an easy point to attack.

Also they state that trade agreements following exit "should be done in two years". I think the guidance says they must take at least two years to give all members time to review them, but on request from a member state they can last much longer. But I can't now find a reference for that so like any good journalist I shall state it without a cite. What really surprises me is that the impact of local legislation affecting side-steps barely gets a mention.

 

[StarCruiser]

Thoughts on Port Talbot are that it is a disgrace that ridiculous energy tariffs are applied in one country while not in another which cause closure of plants, loss of jobs and hardship for many because of some lunacy that masquerades under the guise of saving the planet.
And if this has come from the EU then it strengthens the Out case.
It grieves me greatly to see the once great nation we live in torn apart and sold to the highest scrap bidder. British made steel was known for its top notch quality, so now we have to ship it from China or elsewhere with all the transport emissions involved in that and the pollution that China puts into the atmosphere increases because they don't care. So, energy policy to somehow clean up our act in the UK means greater environmental impact on the world in general and loss of British jobs and manufacturing.

Sorry for thread jack, It just enrages me the stupidity of it all from whatever political source.

 

[Rob Cowell]

Thoughts on Port Talbot are that it is a disgrace that ridiculous energy tariffs are applied in one country while not in another which cause closure of plants, loss of jobs and hardship for many because of some lunacy that masquerades under the guise of saving the planet.
And if this has come from the EU then it strengthens the Out case.
It grieves me greatly to see the once great nation we live in torn apart and sold to the highest scrap bidder. British made steel was known for its top notch quality, so now we have to ship it from China or elsewhere with all the transport emissions involved in that and the pollution that China puts into the atmosphere increases because they don't care. So, energy policy to somehow clean up our act in the UK means greater environmental impact on the world in general and loss of British jobs and manufacturing.

Sorry for thread jack, It just enrages me the stupidity of it all from whatever political source.

The EU sets emissions targets big businesses must hit or be fined. It is possible to buy a higher target by investing in emissions reduction elsewhere in the world. The EU does not set tariffs on Energy. There are large differences in energy costs within the EU because individual nations can chose how to generate their power and how to manage that. We get investment from China to build nuclear plants at the cost of losing our steel industry, I think.

I share your view that all the world should follow the same energy and emissions standards, but unless we were all in some sort of legally binding union I don't see how we could be. The EU can offsets that problem by imposing, or trying to impose some additional tariffs on products where local standards give them a competitive advantage. Britain vetoed part of this though so that tariff is not applied to Chinese steel. Personally I would much rather the EU tariff approach where we have locally strong environmental and workplace safety standards rather than competing with China by adopting their standards.

Is there a better solution?

 

[StarCruiser]

That China and all the other 'developing' countries are given the same rights of environmental protection, working conditions, wages and human rights that we are so that there is a level playing field. Then all the world would be coming to us for our quality. And while we're at it perhaps the EU can get China's coal fired power stations scrapped like it has done to ours in the name of a better planet.

Sorry, that really is a utopian pipe dream that will never happen.

 

[Rob Cowell]

And while we're at it perhaps the EU can get China's coal fired power stations scrapped like it has done to ours in the name of a better planet.

Have they scrapped them? I'd better tell Aberthaw. Apparently the Euro Comission has weighed in there though, trying to lessen Nitrogen Oxide emissions. Bloody do-gooders. That only causes emphysema. And with the prevailing wind the only place that would really hit is Barry. Does anyone even live in Barry?

 

[StarCruiser]

So it's ok for all our manufacturing and recycling to go to China and India and for their people to die of terrible respiratory diseases rather than make it economical to produce stuff in this country under the vastly better conditions while our leaders here and in Brussels give themselves a good pat on the back for the work they have done to cut emissions in the UK by putting such a financial burden on businesses that they cannot compete?
We had some of the cleanest burning coal fired power stations in the world but they still closed due to crazy green energy tariffs. Now people have lost their lives at (I think) Didcot during the demolition of the boiler house.

 

[Chas]

Also they state that trade agreements following exit "should be done in two years". I think the guidance says they must take at least two years to give all members time to review them, but on request from a member state they can last much longer. But I can't now find a reference for that so like any good journalist I shall state it without a cite. .

It might be this Rob, Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty (http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-voted-to-leave-the-eu-what-would-happen-next)

 

[Ben]

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...nd-back-to-hell-on-nauru-20160201-gmirsb.html

For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share;
With courage let us all combine
To advance Australia fair.

Lol They may aswell sing "I should be so lucky" as a national anthem.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.POP.DNST

A population density of 3 people per square kilometre and they send kids to "processing centres" or ship them to Cambodia. NICE !

The thing with refugees making their own way to Australia across land and by boat is that they must pass through multiple safe countries where they could claim asylum, on the way!

So are they genuine refugees or economic migrants!

I dont believe kids should be sent to detention centers, but I also would hate for this great country to open its doors wide open to the world like Merkel has and end up in a similar situation!

I had to jump through hoops to be able to move here and even then it was only because I had a skill that was in demand and had passed English reading, writing, listening and speaking exams and a thorougher medical including a HIV test!

Which means I only got in as I am an asset to this country!

 

[Rob Cowell]

It might be this Rob, Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty (http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-voted-to-leave-the-eu-what-would-happen-next)

Thanks. The wording in the Spectator piece makes more sense to me now. So it's just the potentially misleading graph that annoys me!

 

[Rob Cowell]

So it's ok for all our manufacturing and recycling to go to China and India and for their people to die of terrible respiratory diseases...

Absolutely not. And by applying tariffs to countries taking those short cuts we remove the incentives they have from continuing to adopt that model, or at least make it less attractive for our manufacturers to continue to support it.

 

[Dave2000]

A number of european members have discussed on the forum the difficulties faced while trying to register a car that is not absolutely 100% bog standard . Those rules will be forced on us if we don't get out now .

I have to agree this does look to be the way things will go IMO, looking from the outside in.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave2000]

that's just Spanish law, its not EU afaik

On the way down through Spain to Morocco we met a local chap in a modified 80 driving home from Morocco so it must be possible to change things

Yes it IS posible but....at a price!

Here is as basic an example I can give.

You purchase a towbar from a spanish supplier with the correct ´homogolado´number.

You take it to a registered garage and pay to have it fitted.

You then go to the nearest MOT station and have your ´Ficha Tecnica´ updated (circa €50.00), notify the insurance company and then you are good to go

Of course if you remove it and do not return to the MOT station to have the documents updated (another €50.00) then you stand for a €150.00 fine. Easy peasy right¿


Now try and do a modification, well it starts with you contacting a vehicle engineer to créate a ´project´, you tell him what you want, he tells you if you can have it, he will offer part numbers that must be displayed on the purchase reciept and you pay him, varies from €150.00 - €500.00 depending on the modification involved. You then have your car inspected (€50.00) then you get a registered garage to do the work for which you have to pay for (depends on work but a mínimum €100.00), now BACK to the MOT station to have the installation checked (another €50.00), notify insurance and again your good to go with your.........................................SNORKEL!!!

Yes, it comes under the rules of ´non original fitment!!

Regards

Dave

 

[Rob Cowell]

So I think what we're saying is that we're better off being in the EU so we can veto this nonsense being made mandatory throughout the union. Otherwise Spain will force its legislation on the rest of the continent and we'll be denied access at the border with our snorkels and roof racks as we head for Morrocco. Yes?

 

[Dave2000]

So I think what we're saying is that we're better off being in the EU so we can veto this nonsense being made mandatory throughout the union. Otherwise Spain will force its legislation on the rest of the continent and we'll be denied access at the border with our snorkels and roof racks as we head for Morrocco. Yes?

It is not just Spain that has this nonsense.

No to EU, because the no one will listen to the UK, they will simply forcé the EU (or should I say continental) way of thinking on to the ´Little island´ separate from us here. And no to the roof rack and snorkel, as long as you have the OFFICAL EU PAPERS.

I said the other day that the UK is isolated, even an outsider,a typical example is, go and buy a packet of headache tables, more often then not the instructions are written in every EU member language EXCEPT ENGLISH.

These are the FACTS that many simply do not see.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave2000]

IF the UK stays in the EU, then you will see so much legislation shoved down your throat you will choke............and you the voter will pay billions for it.

regards

Dave

 

[Rob Cowell]

Maybe that brand, or sub-brand of tablets is only sold in a number of non-English speaking countries? Really in all EU languages other than English? Irish? Is that a FACT? Could you show me?

I work with a lot of Romanians. I live for part of the year in France. Appreciate that is not the same as being domiciled outside of the UK. We have different views on how the various nations on the mainland view one another, and the UK.

 

[Dave2000]

Good point the the Irish never really thought about it but they, are FWIW part of the UK as well right¿

Agree on different opinons about how other countries view us.

I had a fall yesterday and am expecting a meds delivery, unless something changed yesterday I doubt I will see English, I do recall opening meds in thre UK that had langauges from countries I had never heard of.

regards

Dave

EDIT: Damn! It is a PITA typing on a small spanish keyboard, made worse by this site does not working well from Spain so apologies for anything that typing wise that looks odd.

Regards

Dave

 

[hopeless wanderer]

The thing with refugees making their own way to Australia across land and by boat is that they must pass through multiple safe countries where they could claim asylum, on the way!

So are they genuine refugees or economic migrants!

I dont believe kids should be sent to detention centers, but I also would hate for this great country to open its doors wide open to the world like Merkel has and end up in a similar situation!

I had to jump through hoops to be able to move here and even then it was only because I had a skill that was in demand and had passed English reading, writing, listening and speaking exams and a thorougher medical including a HIV test!

Which means I only got in as I am an asset to this country!

I see your point about seperating the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. What you have is a sea of disinformation perpetuated by Mr. Murdoch and his cronies.

The fact we should be talking about common agricultural policy, European defence strategy, Schengen Visa status, Common monetary policy, harmonisation of standards, common fisheries policy etc etc etc but everything is swayed by the mass media to be a debate about refugees which then gets muddled with migrant workers. IT'S A GAME.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...uster/&usg=AFQjCNGOPLUBx-9zvcOQfBlvFrZ7LfaFig

This exposes some of the common myths perpetuated about refugees and its related to Australia too.

To highlight how far the dog whistle politics has undermined the debate, Pat stated earlier that "Tony Abbott in Aussie had the right idea.Stop the boats.While it may seem harsh,I doubt very much that the people
movement around the world is a genuine refugee crisis more like an underhand invasion strategy. "

What has also happened as the above shows, is the debate has been tied to "Islamic" extremism. It's a ridiculous statement simply bundling millions of people into a media pigeonhole.

People actually suggest that there is some cohesive strategy where a diverse group of people are somehow part of a masterplan .... Thats so stupid it's Donald Trump daft. (my new standard of the epitomy of dumb)
You can't even get two Muslims in the same room to agree on something never mind billions of them

So you end up with some Tamil from Sri lanka (Who is a Bhuddist anyway) escaping genocide at the hands of the government or the rebels (They took them all, men women and children on forced marches reminiscent of WWII) where they were either killed by the Tamil Tigers or obliterated by government attacks) *see article

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/11/04/sri_lankas_hidden_genocide.html
The few that took to the sea given the stark choice and made their way across the sea and Australia sent them back. Do you fancy taking a guess what happened to them on their return ?? Watch one of those "torture porn" horror movies like hostel, That should cover it i reckon.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28189316

So why the interest ? Well i went to Sri lanka and picked my way through the minefields and found the family of a refugee who was helped to settle in NZ by a charity my girlfriend volunteered for. I went with her to tell them he was ok and to deliver some letters and photos. He made a good recovery and his kid is at uni now in Wellington. O
bviously he is still pretty damaged, but then wouldnt you be if someone lit an empty 2 litre bottle of coke on fire and holding it with a welding glove dripped the molten plastic on your bollocks while you were staked out naked and spreadeagle. These are the people who are "Pushed back" Sent back or sent to PNG

 

[Rob Cowell]

Good point the the Irish never really thought about it but they, are FWIW part of the UK as well right¿

I love showing this stuff to my Irish wife. I guess Spanish TV didn't have much coverage of the 1916 commemorations last weekend.

I'm trying to recall if it's a similar situation in France. From memory I'm sure we've been on to Google translate for some words on medicine for the kids, but I don't recall noticing non-French, non-English instructions. Fortunately I've only ever needed paracetamol, which I cannot buy in a supermarket, and only seems to come in 1g tablets, rather than 500mg here. Which to my mind shows that legislation around the sale of pharmaceuticals differs across the union.

I sincerely hope your medicine is sorted out today. And I like the upside down question marks.