eu in or out poll

[hopeless wanderer]

so a million WW2 vets still alive, so about as much as the majority in favour of leave then!!

I'd love a house price crash, bigger the better, I might actually be able to afford one then.
When I first qualified as a nurse a 3-4 bed estate house in Norfolk (where I happened to be looking at the time) was about 40k, or about 3 times my salary, now, that same house is 10 times a nurses starting salary. That massive rise has been caused by the banks having ever bigger salary multipliers, which doesn't make housing more accessable, it makes it less accessable and affordable but makes the banks more money. The amount of our disposable income we have to spend on housing is ridiculous. My entire months salary, barr £300 goes on rent. The only way we can afford to live is for my wife to work, and me to have two jobs.

In the housing crash the bank gets to reposess that which it has already made huge sums of money on.
Thats why its a cycle, during a boom your're being fattened for the kill.
Think about it a new mock Edwardian townhouse costs 50-60k to construct (the council doesnt object to the urban sprawl caused by these developments because it makes them millions in council tax)
They sell it to you for lets say 500k (I'm from the North so a bit less obviously)
You get a big mortgage based on low interest rates and a healthy jobs market coupled with a higher salary multiplier from the bank.
Bingo they've got their hand clamped tightly round your balls now.
The market changes ... the house is reposessed and its sold to the next poor person who has been duped into aspiring to this lifestyle and the game begins again.

Affordable housing needs to built to provide homes for social housing and first time buyers.
When a policeman a nurse or a teacher cannot afford to get on the housing ladder, you know there is a serious issue. The only person actually comitted to doing this is Corbyn, is it any surprise that the media led and owned by a handful of wealthy people is out to get him.
He is anti semitic, he wants to stop us having an army blah blah blah. The stories just keep adding up but if you read what he actually says instead of what the BBC or the papers say, the man talks a lot of sense.
Couple of great articles below regarding "Auntie" and here is the list of former director generals of the BBC
can you see a pattern ? Toe the line and keep the propaganda flowing in favour of the current shower in parliament and you get a knighthood and probably a place on some media quango that nets you tens o thousands of pounds a year if not more. The only other more certain route to a knighthood is to join a Westminster paedophile ring it seems.


Sir John Reith, later The Lord Reith
Sir Frederick Ogilvie
Sir Cecil Graves and Robert W. Foot
Robert W. Foot
Sir William Haley
Sir Ian Jacob
Sir Hugh Greene
Sir Charles Curran
Sir Ian Trethowan
Alasdair Milne
Sir Michael Checkland
Sir John Birt, later The Lord Birt
Mark Byford (acting)
Mark Thompson
George Entwistle
Tim Davie (acting)
The Lord Hall of Birkenhead



http://evolvepolitics.com/bbc-admit...corbyn-leadership-contrived-live-resignation/
https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourbe...-to-corbyn-90-years-of-bbc-establishment-bias

 

[Pat]

In the housing crash the bank gets to reposess that which it has already made huge sums of money on.
Thats why its a cycle, during a boom your're being fattened for the kill.
Think about it a new mock Edwardian townhouse costs 50-60k to construct (the council doesnt object to the urban sprawl caused by these developments because it makes them millions in council tax)
They sell it to you for lets say 500k (I'm from the North so a bit less obviously)
You get a big mortgage based on low interest rates and a healthy jobs market coupled with a higher salary multiplier from the bank.
Bingo they've got their hand clamped tightly round your balls now.
The market changes ... the house is reposessed and its sold to the next poor person who has been duped into aspiring to this lifestyle and the game begins again.

Affordable housing needs to built to provide homes for social housing and first time buyers.
When a policeman a nurse or a teacher cannot afford to get on the housing ladder, you know there is a serious issue. The only person actually comitted to doing this is Corbyn, is it any surprise that the media led and owned by a handful of wealthy people is out to get him.
He is anti semitic, he wants to stop us having an army blah blah blah. The stories just keep adding up but if you read what he actually says instead of what the BBC or the papers say, the man talks a lot of sense.
Couple of great articles below regarding "Auntie" and here is the list of former director generals of the BBC
can you see a pattern ? Toe the line and keep the propaganda flowing in favour of the current shower in parliament and you get a knighthood and probably a place on some media quango that nets you tens o thousands of pounds a year if not more. The only other more certain route to a knighthood is to join a Westminster paedophile ring it seems.


Sir John Reith, later The Lord Reith
Sir Frederick Ogilvie
Sir Cecil Graves and Robert W. Foot
Robert W. Foot
Sir William Haley
Sir Ian Jacob
Sir Hugh Greene
Sir Charles Curran
Sir Ian Trethowan
Alasdair Milne
Sir Michael Checkland
Sir John Birt, later The Lord Birt
Mark Byford (acting)
Mark Thompson
George Entwistle
Tim Davie (acting)
The Lord Hall of Birkenhead



http://evolvepolitics.com/bbc-admit...corbyn-leadership-contrived-live-resignation/
https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourbe...-to-corbyn-90-years-of-bbc-establishment-bias

When I was young probably about your age,I was spouting my thoughts about the inequalities of humanity and what we should do to right the wrongs.The recipient was a much older and wiser man than myself.He said it is good that you think strongly about the disadvantaged but age will tell you that many people you want to help are not deserving of help because they will not help themselves.You keep going through life with those aims but don't be surprised
when you suffer disappointments from the ones you want to help.
A lesson learnt and ever so true.The young are the radical liberals and I'm afraid do a lot of damage on their way to learning about life,but that is human nature.
You do not seem to have any respect for the leaders of the leave movements,but remember that these people are doing Britain a great favour in getting your rights,guaranteed under the Magna Carta restored to you.
Age does have its benefits when looking at history and current affairs.Pat

 

[Brian S]

Like that Pat
Can't remember the saying, but it goes something like, if your not a liberal when your young, you have no heart, and if your not a conservative when your old, you have no brain, think that's how it went

Someone will put me right on the correct version

 

[hopeless wanderer]

When I was young probably about your age,I was spouting my thoughts about the inequalities of humanity and what we should do to right the wrongs.The recipient was a much older and wiser man than myself.He said it is good that you think strongly about the disadvantaged but age will tell you that many people you want to help are not deserving of help because they will not help themselves.You keep going through life with those aims but don't be surprised
when you suffer disappointments from the ones you want to help.
A lesson learnt and ever so true.The young are the radical liberals and I'm afraid do a lot of damage on their way to learning about life,but that is human nature.
You do not seem to have any respect for the leaders of the leave movements,but remember that these people are doing Britain a great favour in getting your rights,guaranteed under the Magna Carta restored to you.
Age does have its benefits when looking at history and current affairs.Pat

My next big birthday is 50 Pat, I'm far from being a wide eyed kid full of dreams.
I agree with what you're saying as far as is it worth the effort with some people.
I'm sure it may seem like i'm a lefty soft arse lol. Trust me i'm to the right of Hitler on a few topics for example:
I don't advocate mass sterilisation but i dont see anything wrong with the 10 year contraceptive implant being administered to girls at the same age they get their jabs at school (not being sexist of course if they had one for boys i'd do the same to them).
Nothing to do with money because we were piss poor when we were kids and we turned out fine. Prove you'll raise decent, respectful children who have a good chance of contributing to society and we will remove the implant (probably after youve attended and passed numerous courses on how to raise kids, feed them etc etc)
I remember i went to my local RSPCA centre to get a rescue dog, later the inspector came to my house and refused me because my fences weren't tall enough. Several months later my first son was born and it struck me, not a single person came to check if i was capable of raising a human child.

I lived in the area of the UK with the highest teen pregnancies in Europe, it's appalling to see kids raising kids and knowing these people will amount to nothing more likely than not, nothing but a drain on society at least. No work ethic , no desire to better their lot or encourage their children to do better.
One think ill never forget is waiting in a pizza shop for my order and girl coming in and she was so proud that her child who could barely speak had been taught to respond to the question "wots your dad?" with the reply.. "a wanker"

I'm sick of judges letting people off because they were drunk or stoned when they committed a crime. I'll match most of these people drink for drink, joint for joint, pill for pill or snort for snort.
I'm not about to go and mug a granny or beat someone up though, beacuse I'm not a scumbag.
I'm sick of their sob stories, I'd have them clamped in irons and cleaning up the estates where they caused their mayhem as a deterrent to others, none of this community service, victim conciliation bullshit.
I had to sit in a room once with one of these bastards who punched my son and took his new bike from him. His mother sat there saying how she divorced his father and little Jonny was upset.... boo effing hoo.
My son had just lost his grandmother to cancer, the woman he adored, who took care of him while his mum and i worked two jobs each. I'd bought the bike to try and cheer him up.

I'd love to have my rights under Magna Carta, I'd also love to not be under the yoke of whichever Oxford graduate they put up next carry the same insane self serving policies.

 

[Shayne]

Have to wonder about Corbyn's refusal to quit ,when MarkW mentioned him yesterday i got to thinking who in their right mind would want to be PM when we are heading into a global financial crash? its a career suicide unless you have a pot of gold to look forward to when you have shafted everyone and disappeared into obscurity . What does he know that we don't ?

67 years old and whichever way you look at it a rebel towards going with the flow and reportedly principled to the point of stupidity

 

[hopeless wanderer]

Have to wonder about Corbyn's refusal to quit ,when MarkW mentioned him yesterday i got to thinking who in their right mind would want to be PM when we are heading into a global financial crash? its a career suicide unless you have a pot of gold to look forward to when you have shafted everyone and disappeared into obscurity . What does he know that we don't ?

67 years old and whichever way you look at it a rebel towards going with the flow and reportedly principled to the point of stupidity

Those damn idealists.
He's just appointed the shadow secretary for defence.
Clive Lewis, a Sandhurst attendee and a former veteran with active service in Afghanistan as a member of the TA.
Beats the hell out of some university graduate with no service record whatsoever.
Maybe he may do something about either not going into pointless wars or if they do its not going to be with inferior or antique kit if he is in charge.
A quote from the man "As someone who had my fill on my short tour of Afghanistan of death and mayhem, I sometimes think if we had a few more MP's in there seeing the direct cosequences of their lust for war, maybe they'd think twice about it."

 

[moggy1968]

My next big birthday is 50 Pat, I'm far from being a wide eyed kid full of dreams.
I agree with what you're saying as far as is it worth the effort with some people.
I'm sure it may seem like i'm a lefty soft arse lol. Trust me i'm to the right of Hitler on a few topics for example:
I don't advocate mass sterilisation but i dont see anything wrong with the 10 year contraceptive implant being administered to girls at the same age they get their jabs at school (not being sexist of course if they had one for boys i'd do the same to them).
Nothing to do with money because we were piss poor when we were kids and we turned out fine. Prove you'll raise decent, respectful children who have a good chance of contributing to society and we will remove the implant (probably after youve attended and passed numerous courses on how to raise kids, feed them etc etc)
I remember i went to my local RSPCA centre to get a rescue dog, later the inspector came to my house and refused me because my fences weren't tall enough. Several months later my first son was born and it struck me, not a single person came to check if i was capable of raising a human child.

I lived in the area of the UK with the highest teen pregnancies in Europe, it's appalling to see kids raising kids and knowing these people will amount to nothing more likely than not, nothing but a drain on society at least. No work ethic , no desire to better their lot or encourage their children to do better.
One think ill never forget is waiting in a pizza shop for my order and girl coming in and she was so proud that her child who could barely speak had been taught to respond to the question "wots your dad?" with the reply.. "a wanker"

I'm sick of judges letting people off because they were drunk or stoned when they committed a crime. I'll match most of these people drink for drink, joint for joint, pill for pill or snort for snort.
I'm not about to go and mug a granny or beat someone up though, beacuse I'm not a scumbag.
I'm sick of their sob stories, I'd have them clamped in irons and cleaning up the estates where they caused their mayhem as a deterrent to others, none of this community service, victim conciliation bullshit.
I had to sit in a room once with one of these bastards who punched my son and took his new bike from him. His mother sat there saying how she divorced his father and little Jonny was upset.... boo effing hoo.
My son had just lost his grandmother to cancer, the woman he adored, who took care of him while his mum and i worked two jobs each. I'd bought the bike to try and cheer him up.

I'd love to have my rights under Magna Carta, I'd also love to not be under the yoke of whichever Oxford graduate they put up next carry the same insane self serving policies.

I'm an ED nurse. I got punched by a druggie off his head in ED once, put me on the floor. I was told it wasn't his fault because he was on drugs, what fucking shite. If I get pissed, get in my car and kill someone it's my fault!! if you can't control yourself, don't get pissed and don't take drugs. You weren't forced to take them, you are accountable!!

 

[moggy1968]

Those damn idealists.
He's just appointed the shadow secretary for defence.
Clive Lewis, a Sandhurst attendee and a former veteran with active service in Afghanistan as a member of the TA.
Beats the hell out of some university graduate with no service record whatsoever.
Maybe he may do something about either not going into pointless wars or if they do its not going to be with inferior or antique kit if he is in charge.
A quote from the man "As someone who had my fill on my short tour of Afghanistan of death and mayhem, I sometimes think if we had a few more MP's in there seeing the direct cosequences of their lust for war, maybe they'd think twice about it."

I wonder how he feels about Corbyn rubbing shoulders with the IRA before the peace process?

 

[Pat]

I wonder how he feels about Corbyn rubbing shoulders with the IRA before the peace process?

You would never have a chance of improving your own political system
if you were also dealing with restrictions from the EU.
In NZ we have a problem with a dictatorial type of government and the
opposition is in such disarray that our best hope at the next election is a hung
parliament with the balance of power being held by a part Maori politician
who is a top bloke and will bring the country back to some sort of decency..
We have a big immigration problem with Asians pouring into the country,
and the Chinese trying to take over our farming,our industries and our land.
The average Kiwi struggles to get housing and it won't get better until we control immigration again.

 

[hopeless wanderer]

You would never have a chance of improving your own political system
if you were also dealing with restrictions from the EU.
In NZ we have a problem with a dictatorial type of government and the
opposition is in such disarray that our best hope at the next election is a hung
parliament with the balance of power being held by a part Maori politician
who is a top bloke and will bring the country back to some sort of decency..
We have a big immigration problem with Asians pouring into the country,
and the Chinese trying to take over our farming,our industries and our land.
The average Kiwi struggles to get housing and it won't get better until we control immigration again.

You and the rest of the world Pat. The Chinese have taken to capitalism like a duck to water.
I have to say i was startled to see the buttons in a lift in Auckland marked in Chinese numerals, all the property sale signs are in chinese too. Profit doesn't seem to care for community, culture, integration or any of those things. Who pays the most wins it seems. It's admirable what you said about you not selling your farm on a previous post, some things hold a value greater than cold hard cash. Sadly we've been conditioned to think greed is good :-(

 

[hopeless wanderer]

I'm an ED nurse. I got punched by a druggie off his head in ED once, put me on the floor. I was told it wasn't his fault because he was on drugs, what fucking shite. If I get pissed, get in my car and kill someone it's my fault!! if you can't control yourself, don't get pissed and don't take drugs. You weren't forced to take them, you are accountable!!

Exactly, less of the excuses and take responsibility for your actions and behaviour. This rubbish about "the drugs made me do it" is rustled up by defence solicitors. They've even gone as far as having a bloody sob story on talent shows these days... ridiculous.
In my family we have a paramedic, a paediatric nurse, a radiologist and my girlfriend is studying medicine.
Everyone has suffered or witnessed some sort of assault at work. I'm sure my girlfriend will too, I just hope she remembers the patient details for me .
My nephew the Paramedic is a solidly built lad now, he said he only started going to the gym because he was fighting every other weekend and needed every advantage he could get. Sad state of life in modern Britain, even the medics and firefighters are targets.

 

[Shayne]

You would never have a chance of improving your own political system
if you were also dealing with restrictions from the EU.
In NZ we have a problem with a dictatorial type of government and the
opposition is in such disarray that our best hope at the next election is a hung
parliament with the balance of power being held by a part Maori politician
who is a top bloke and will bring the country back to some sort of decency..
We have a big immigration problem with Asians pouring into the country,
and the Chinese trying to take over our farming,our industries and our land.
The average Kiwi struggles to get housing and it won't get better until we control immigration again.

We have exactly the same problem Pat , its not EU restrictions that cause the problems its EU money . It buys the man in charge and anyone else who might oppose , it buys only convenient statistics , it buys only convenient science , it buys only the convenient truth .

Saddens me that if i was asked to vote for the next PM politics and policy would have nothing to do with my choice , instead i would look for , have looked for , who is least likely to be bought .

 

[MarkW]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36702468

Another BREXIT leader disappears, starting to smell a bit now, see the campaign through and then bugger off with out any input into the process after the referendum. They didn't have a plan did they!

 

[Shayne]

Democracy achieved what was seen by all as impossible to achieve nobody had a plan , even the bank of England has only adapted the strategy they had in place ready for the financial crash that was already in motion regardless of the referendum .

 

[Edward Moyse]

We have exactly the same problem Pat , its not EU restrictions that cause the problems its EU money . It buys the man in charge and anyone else who might oppose , it buys only convenient statistics , it buys only convenient science, it buys only the convenient truth .

Saddens me that if i was asked to vote for the next PM politics and policy would have nothing to do with my choice , instead i would look for , have looked for , who is least likely to be bought .

Just on the point about science, when Brexit happens science in the UK will likely be seriously impacted (which one reason, of many, that most scientists were firmly in the remain camp). The EU led to an influx of top scientists to the UK because of its many excellent universities, and with these top scientists came funding. It's certainly not true that the EU only bought convenient science - it bought top quality science, which the UK government wasn't prepared to pay for.

(I'm a physicist working at CERN)

 

[MarkW]

Like Science, the Construction industry is also suffering, now officially in contraction rather than growth

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36701273

This is affecting friends and colleagues incomes and job security with many people I know going through redundancy at the moment. A direct result of the the vote outcome.

If construction shrinks the whole of the UK economy is effected

 

[Brian S]

Mark don't know about anywhere else, but they can't build houses quick enough down here.
My son told me this morning that one sites 1st phase is all sold out, and they haven't even finished half of it yet.
We work in Construction, and unusual for us, we're looking at a solid 2 years work in front of us, normally 3 to 6 months

 

[BobMurphy]

There are houses & flats of all shapes & sizes going up all around here, the fields are disappearing under Development Projects. A rather depressed sleepy little ex-mining village along the road (Winchburgh) is well into its 3,500 unit property expansion.

In the past, such properties have been bought 'off the plan' by Speculators who can sell them on completion for £30K more than they paid. I wonder if that is still happening!

I'm curious to know where the money for all this is coming from - its not Government-sponsored 'affordable housing' !

Bob.

 

[MarkW]

I work on Civil Engineering projects (>£50million), mostly large roads/rail jobs and we've got nothing coming up, neither have our competitors. All the big clients have been holding off tendering or awarding projects

Meanwhile the Brexit Strategy has been revealed
http://newsthump.com/2016/07/04/lea...egy-basically-monty-pythons-retreat-strategy/

 

[lc 120]

Just had this sent to me, interesting read...


A short list of financial and industrial FUBARs from the EU...
Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers’ pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs.
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU.
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK.
The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK.
We used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't.
Still want to stay? Well it must be some consolation that you have Cameron to negotiate in Europe on your behalf.
And of course, the real deal-breaker .... Democracy, transparency and independence. We can vote out our MPs - BUT the European Commission who dictate 55% of UK laws, which are legally binding, are ..... guess what, untouchable, unelected and hidden from view.