First LC - HJ60 or LJ70? (update)

[Arild]

Hi, this is my first post and since i don't own a LC yet, i 'm not going to use the template. But let me introduce myself first.
I'm Arild, 33 years young and i'm from Belgium. English is not my native language so go easy on me

To keep this story short... We own a SWB Suzuki Vitara 1.6l from 2003 with a roof top tent to travel to italy/france..., basicly western europe, which is fine for 2 people but we would also like to carry two bicycles and occasionally, 2 more people. I'm afraid (i know) the Suzuki won't be ale to provide a smooth journey so we're in need of an upgrade.

2 months ago i started to google. We learned a lot about off road vehicles. Nissan Patrol, Mitshubishi Pajero, Defender, etc... (europe cars) and then i stumbled upon this forum. I have to say, i love Land Cruisers. Especially the 60 series and the Troopy but they are costly where i live.
I narrowed down our search to an SWB 70's or a 60 model.

Anyway, the question i have:

How does the SWB LJ70 compair against an HJ60 for long ride's on-road and can they maintain a speed of 110km/h (70mph) for an extended period?

I know, they are designed to go off-road but still, if i want to go skiïng, i need to get to italy on solid road...
In Belgium almost all J70's have the 2L-T engine and if i can find an J60 it's mostly a 5 speed diesel.

Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks in advance!

 

[Rodger]

Welcome

That's an interesting question ....
An HJ60 - 6 cylinder 4 litres diesel with a 5 speed is going at least 27 years old and finding one that has been maintained sufficiently well to be able to maintain 110 kph is a big ask. The engines will go on for ever but it is old style design engineering. It may be worth contacting the guys in Holland who specialise in 60s - can't remember their name but someone on here will know.

I suspect that only members who have had both models will really be able to answer your question but obviously a 2lt engine is going to be at higher revs to maintain the speed you require.

Both are, undoubtedly, vehicles with excellent on and off road capabilities. Maybe you have to test drive examples of each before you make your decision because I'm not convinced you are comparing like for like. They are by design very different vehicles: SWB v LWB, 2lt v 4lt, 2 door v 4 door and so on.

Sorry this isn't very constructive in answering your question but I think you maybe have to decide what the majority of your uses are and that will help define which truck is best for you.

Regards,
Rodger

 

[Shayne]

A swb V an 8 seater ?

I would suggest searching in the middle ground for a prado 70 import maybe .

There's often some interesting trucks on this website http://www.theparking.eu/used-cars-detail/toyota-land-cruiser/toyota-land-cruiser-bj75/32OLFVB1.html

 

[Arild]

That's an interesting question ....
It may be worth contacting the guys in Holland who specialise in 60s - can't remember their name but someone on here will know.

I think you're linking to 'cruiserworld.nl'. Funny you mention them We already planned a 2 day trip to their garage in Wolvega. We just need to find some spare time in the weekend...

I suspect that only members who have had both models will really be able to answer your question but obviously a 2lt engine is going to be at higher revs to maintain the speed you require.

True. On every toyota-forum the 2L-T has a very bad reputation because of cilinder head cracks (?) but i wonder if it's realy that bad? (i have no intention in starting a discussion about the 2L-T, it's just a tought)

Both are, undoubtedly, vehicles with excellent on and off road capabilities. Maybe you have to test drive examples of each before you make your decision because I'm not convinced you are comparing like for like. They are by design very different vehicles: SWB v LWB, 2lt v 4lt, 2 door v 4 door and so on.

I like them both for what they are. For me the 70 is an unstoppable work-horse while the 60 is more of an oldtimer with alot of character. But then again, the 2L-T wasn't built as a work-horse while the 4.0l diesel in the 60 is unstoppable
The test drive is the reason we would like to visit cruiserworld

Sorry this isn't very constructive in answering your question but I think you maybe have to decide what the majority of your uses are and that will help define which truck is best for you.

No problem. I'm glad you shared your opinion!
[/QUOTE]

A swb V an 8 seater ?

I would suggest searching in the middle ground for a prado 70 import maybe .

There's often some interesting trucks on this website http://www.theparking.eu/used-cars-detail/toyota-land-cruiser/toyota-land-cruiser-bj75/32OLFVB1.html

Yeah, i've seen that one on the net. This is the same truck. Unfortunately the prado in Belgium, was never legalised to carry more than 2 people. They were sold only as van's without back seats.

What i'm looking for is a model before 1992 with minimum 4 seats and a decent engine for long-period rides (read 8/10 hours). We cross the alpes in Italy every year, twice. If 110km/h (70mph) isn't possible i'm willing to make that sacrifice and just drive 90km/h (60mph) and enjoy the scene...

 

[clivehorridge]

Welcome Anoard Arild!

Up to you're last post, I was about to suggest an 80, enough space for 4 in comfort, and spare load space to be useful. They carry a RTT with ease, and they're good offroad even when loaded, with excellent road manners.

Pre 1992 makes it more difficult, and almost confines you to a 60. 60s are notorious for rust, but if you can find a good one original or restored, you'll tick all your boxes. It won't be cheap, whereas a good 80 can be found at the right price.

 

[Arild]

The idea of an 80 crossed my mind. They have everything i need but the problem is, and this may sound stupid, i don't love them like i love the 60 or 70 series.

Everything above 1992 is also just too expensive to drive with because of diesel-taxes...

A good 60 can be found from €8000 to €10000 in Holland.

 

[clivehorridge]

The idea of an 80 crossed my mind. They have everything i need but the problem is, and this may sound stupid, i don't love them like i love the 60 or 70 series.

Everything above 1992 is also just too expensive to drive with because of diesel-taxes...

A good 60 can be found from €8000 to €10000 in Holland.

Well, I love my 80, so the concept isn't stupid at all.

If a good 60 can be found for 8-10k euro, then that's on a par with the price of a good 80 in the U.K.

 

[Ben]

Welcome to the club.

I too used to have Vitara's, owned 4 in total.

Then I entered the awesome world of LandCruiser's with an LJ70!

I loved the vehicle (still do), but hated the engine!

The LJ70 should never have left the factory with the 2lt! Its gutless, underpowered, thirsty and destined to blow head gaskets and crack heads!

Converting to the 1KZ-T 3TD was one of the best modifications I ever made and completely transformed the vehicle!

Since then I worked for a company where the company vehicle I would drive almost every day, sometimes on 300+ km journeys, was a 60 series with the mighty 12HT engine!

Having experienced both myself and going by what you have said, I recommend a 60 over an LJ70!

Or if you could get a KZJ78, even better, as then you would have the comfort of coil suspension and 4 wheel disc brakes, both things the 60 sadly lacks.

The 60 does take a little bit of getting used to with the cart springs under it, especially on bends as it handles completely differently to a coil sprung 4wd, its not bad, just different.

 

[Arild]

Hm, i'm leaning towards a 60. We don't care too much about comfort.
Then the next question will be: an FJ or HJ.
I understand all F-series are petrol and H-series are diesel? (the 1st letter of the engine-type) Correct me if i'm wrong.
So, should i look for a 12H-T or an 3F/ 3F-E?
I think more torque is helpfull for those sharp curves and long uphill road of the alpes?

Man, what a learning experience... I appreciate the quick replies and good help!

 

[Ben Stratford]

Hi Arild,
Of the 2 diesel varients of the 60, the 12H-T that Ben mentioned is by far superior in my view in terms of power and cruising top speed (i have owned them both). The 2H doesnt have a turbo and can cruise comfortably at 70-75mph but when hills come along they do have a significant impact even with just the driver and no luggage.
Maarten at Cruiserworld.eu may be able to confirm if he still has the two HJ-61's available with (12H-T) or may be able to source one from down under if you dont mind waiting.
Dont get me wrong, the 2H is a very good engine but needs a different mindset where you set off earlier and have time to gaze out of the side windows!!

 

[Arild]

Ok , so the 12H-T it the engine to look for.
However, i don't think there are many models to choose from. If i find a decent HJ60 with a 2H, maybe a skilled mechanic can help me add an afthermarket turbo. (edit: i read the 2H doesn't turbo well)

What about 3F engine series? They are probably more expensive?

To give you guy's an idea what we will carry along:

• 2 people + a child or two in the future
• camping stove
• smal camping fridge
• spare tire
• 2 bikes
• roof top tent
• roof rack
• a pair of skies
• some extra diesel/petrol cans
• a DIY rear bumper
• an awning (future)

And now i need to figure out the engine/transmission combo's...

 

[nielsc]

With those requirements I’d look after a nice pre 1992 HDJ80, coil springs, turbodiesel so more then enough power, 3 diff lockers, much more comfortable, can be registered as oldtimer...
But either way finding a good HJ61 or HDJ80 pre 1992 is going to be a long search, they arent many left anymore and most are rotted and the good ones are getting expensive.
LJ70 is more suited as a dedicated offroader instead of a tourer/travel vehicle.
I think for the price of a good 70 series, HJ61 or HDJ80 you can buy a 2005 onwards Hilux, wich is “lichte vracht” and thus a 5 seater with 130 eur tax in Belgium, also has al the space you’d need for travelling and they are very reliable. I had one before my HDJ80 and I would choose the Hilux for travelling. Just a tip

 

[Arild]

That thought crossed my mind. There are probably alot of other cars that are better suited for my requirements and cheaper too but as i said before, i just don't love them like i love the 60.

According to the pictures i see and the information i gathered from the internet (and garage Eyckens in Houthalen) the 60 should not have a problem with all that extra weight. Yes, it will be slower.

I really need to do a test drive...

(edit) ok, i asked cruiserworld.nl if we could meet them to get more info. I'm already excited

 

[nielsc]

I understand, I like them more aswell but you know what I mean.
As long as the 60 is in mecanical good condition it will take you around the world without problems and carrying all your weight.
The 60 series is a simple and very heavy duty 4x4.

 

[Arild]

Ok, we're back to square one...

I had a discussion with a few friends and (after a few ) we came to the conclusion that the puchase of the HJ61 is something to postpone until i'm 50 years old. Let's face it, i have no experience with car mechanics, i have no garage/carport to park the car, there is no good toyota dealer who's specialized in land cruisers where i live, i'ts a money pit...

But we still need another car that can carry a roof top tent and other equipment...

I was thinking about a Hilux dual cab from 2003/2004. The newer ones are to expensive and i find them ugly. (no offence!)

Research tells me that most of the Hilux'es from 200# sold in Belgium have the 2KD-FTV (d4-d) engine with (only) 102hp. My question is, how do they drive? I can imagine they are als slow as the HJ61? (Again, i realy don't need to go fast. 110km/h is more than enough)

So, love a 60, drive a Hilux?

 

[Arild]

Ok, it's been over half a year now but we finally made a decision. I'm not really shure if i can post this here because it's not a 'real' Landcruiser. We bought a 1992 4runner.

The good news:
he's from Italy and has very minimal rust. No body work needed. And the price. 4runners are cheap compared to 80's or 60s! Ok, they're a litle less stronger but we don't need a hardcore overlander.

The bad news:
2.4 turbo diesel. Yes, it has the 2LT engine but i think these engines deserve a little more love. With proper maintenance and care they are as reliable as others. (but not as fast... )

Another 'bad' thing is parts. I'm still looking for a good place to buy replacement parts in Belgium. I'm currently searching for a new radiator and new hoses but no luck.

Things to do or i need help with:

Cooling system: need new radiator and hoses
Roof rack: there are no rails of pre-drilled holes in the roof.
Electrical: rear window won't go down, power door locks don't work.
Rear bumper: i'm collecting info on how to make my own rear bumper with swing out arm (tire + bike rack)

This is going to be an interesting learning experience...

 

[fbnss]

I think many of those things you can buy from rough trax. I can't remember very well, it was a long time ago, but on the back (inside) of the rear lock is a switch which goes rusty and stops the window from working.

 

[Michael Montgomery]

Hi there just caught in reading your post now....congratulations I think you've found a good compromise there.

As for parts I'm sure someone here can help you better but being from the UK myself i'm sure you can source used and new parts pretty easily there.

 

[Ben]

Looks good.

@Paddler Ed another 4-Runner owner in the club!

 

[Paddler Ed]

Looks good.

@Paddler Ed another 4-Runner owner in the club!

I have a unique 4Runner... it has 2 engines in it at the moment, a whole spare one ready to go in!

The 4Runner is almost best thought of as a lightweight 100 series or the bit before the Colorado/Prado J9x - IFS and some luxury, but not too much.

Also I didn't realise that the FJ/HJ55 had an electric window in the tailgate as well... I wonder if their motors give up as easily?