Does this mean we can't pick on landrovers any more
Wow, this threat of censorship is starting to get scary!
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Free speech: To allow or disallow?
- Thread starter Crispin
- Start date
Wow, this threat of censorship is starting to get scary!
Chris Green90
Well-Known Member
Firstly just a quick insight into the"N" word
I really think that Big Chris has really stumbled across the crux of the matter here and it IMHO is quite a simple point.
With the way Laws are written since the reformation (in this country at least) you really have to look at you IDENTIFIER as being British (or English, Scotch, etc.) The law of the various lands are the ones you have to adhere to. Not the one required by your religion. I know this has little to do with taste but as has been said taste is an extremely subjective thing.
I know this is a multi-cultural forum and I love the fact that there are so many views to be shared. I do not know if there are any Muslim members on here but it would be interesting to hear their opinions on the joke that started this , as opposed to people thinking they should be offended on their behalf.
In one sense, in the UK the freedom of speech is absolute, however there is a difference between, for example, freedom of speech and inciting racial hatred. It is fine to say your religion sucks but not ok to tell people to go out and attack people because of their religion. haha my imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend.
I have nothing against any religion per se. OK they all have alot to answer for. But seeing as though this all started with a joke about Islam then I will use that as an example. There are extremists in every religion although it is Islam that seem to get most of the press (some of you will remember similar issues that the UK had with the Jewish community in the last century)
Now the Law in this country is that a divorce can be granted by a judge even if one of the parties involved does not wish it. Now this only applies to a marrige conducted in accordance with the laws of this land. Now, there are some Muslims (and not just the radical extremists) who do not bother with a registered marrige but instead opt for aSharia marriage. In which the wife has little or no rights to divorce or any gains from a divorce settlement. There was a story recently where a woman married a man in a Sharia ceremony, They live together for a time and built up a nest egg together in excess of £1m plus a house worth the same. He started to abuse her so she requested a divorce from theSharia council. This was denied and she was told to improve herself so that her husband had no reason to beat her. She ended up walking away with nothing and now lives in fear for her life. If she had been granted a divorce she would not have been entitled to a penny.
This is what I mean when I say first and foremost you "Identifier" Has to be British. It really is quite simple. If you don't want to be British then there is a boat across the Channel every hour, please feel free to use it.
I really should probably have a breathalyzer on my lap top to stop this kind of inane posting late on a Friday night but I haven't so please accept my appologies if this is just rambling nonsense.
I really think that Big Chris has really stumbled across the crux of the matter here and it IMHO is quite a simple point.
With the way Laws are written since the reformation (in this country at least) you really have to look at you IDENTIFIER as being British (or English, Scotch, etc.) The law of the various lands are the ones you have to adhere to. Not the one required by your religion. I know this has little to do with taste but as has been said taste is an extremely subjective thing.
I know this is a multi-cultural forum and I love the fact that there are so many views to be shared. I do not know if there are any Muslim members on here but it would be interesting to hear their opinions on the joke that started this , as opposed to people thinking they should be offended on their behalf.
In one sense, in the UK the freedom of speech is absolute, however there is a difference between, for example, freedom of speech and inciting racial hatred. It is fine to say your religion sucks but not ok to tell people to go out and attack people because of their religion. haha my imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend.
I have nothing against any religion per se. OK they all have alot to answer for. But seeing as though this all started with a joke about Islam then I will use that as an example. There are extremists in every religion although it is Islam that seem to get most of the press (some of you will remember similar issues that the UK had with the Jewish community in the last century)
Now the Law in this country is that a divorce can be granted by a judge even if one of the parties involved does not wish it. Now this only applies to a marrige conducted in accordance with the laws of this land. Now, there are some Muslims (and not just the radical extremists) who do not bother with a registered marrige but instead opt for aSharia marriage. In which the wife has little or no rights to divorce or any gains from a divorce settlement. There was a story recently where a woman married a man in a Sharia ceremony, They live together for a time and built up a nest egg together in excess of £1m plus a house worth the same. He started to abuse her so she requested a divorce from theSharia council. This was denied and she was told to improve herself so that her husband had no reason to beat her. She ended up walking away with nothing and now lives in fear for her life. If she had been granted a divorce she would not have been entitled to a penny.
This is what I mean when I say first and foremost you "Identifier" Has to be British. It really is quite simple. If you don't want to be British then there is a boat across the Channel every hour, please feel free to use it.
I really should probably have a breathalyzer on my lap top to stop this kind of inane posting late on a Friday night but I haven't so please accept my appologies if this is just rambling nonsense.
Chris Green90
Well-Known Member
Sorry forget about 99% of that non of it is at all relevent to the debate on freedom of speech apart from this little bit.
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2013
- Messages
- 16,288
A joke does not and should not incite anything but mirth . By far the vast majority of jokes are funny simply for thier shock value , to say what should not be said is funny . 10 cowboys will sit around a campfire telling jokes about Indians without offending anybody , while the Indians sit at thier own fire telling jokes about the palefaces . Who cares . The trouble is with the internet you cannot choose your audience and so inevitably you run the risk of offending somebody .
If you don't like criticism then don't post your thoughts or jokes - if your easily offended don't read other peoples posts .
People are all the same the world over , we all share the same goal in life regardless of race , religion or skin colour . We are all just trying to improve our own lives . Regardless of race , religion or skin colour the way we go about doing this is as individual as a fingerprint .
Racism and prejudice results from laws that are racist and prejudice which is a total contradiction to the laws purpose . A white man cannot be accused of racism or prejudice for calling a white man white , the same goes for black men . Hence only a racist or prejudice court can accuse a man of racism or prejudice because he is on trial simply because he is of the wrong race or colour .
If you don't like criticism then don't post your thoughts or jokes - if your easily offended don't read other peoples posts .
People are all the same the world over , we all share the same goal in life regardless of race , religion or skin colour . We are all just trying to improve our own lives . Regardless of race , religion or skin colour the way we go about doing this is as individual as a fingerprint .
Racism and prejudice results from laws that are racist and prejudice which is a total contradiction to the laws purpose . A white man cannot be accused of racism or prejudice for calling a white man white , the same goes for black men . Hence only a racist or prejudice court can accuse a man of racism or prejudice because he is on trial simply because he is of the wrong race or colour .
Dave Docwra
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2010
- Messages
- 1,591
Maybe we could learn something from these guys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pbTuE9uzSI&feature=youtu.be
Dave.
Dave.
Do you really think it would have been the same if the bears were hungry?
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Red Oktober
Well-Known Member
No such thing as a "freedom of speech" in my opinion. ...
here's why I think like that ...
Try to stand on a soapbox to preach to the town/village/city you live in and see what happens. .. you will be either moved on ... or arrested for breech of the peace.
If you post something on a forum/tinterweb site that someone doesn't like .. you will either offend someone .. or you will get shot down, or the post will be just deleted (this is also true if the posting is honest).
personally I think the majority of forums are way to clicky .. you either fit in or are an outcast it's as simple as that.
some censorship on the forums is a good thing ... you get less spam. ... but the members of the fourms should have a degree of "self moderation" about the stuff they post.
anyway ... that's my 2p's worth ...
here's why I think like that ...
Try to stand on a soapbox to preach to the town/village/city you live in and see what happens. .. you will be either moved on ... or arrested for breech of the peace.
If you post something on a forum/tinterweb site that someone doesn't like .. you will either offend someone .. or you will get shot down, or the post will be just deleted (this is also true if the posting is honest).
personally I think the majority of forums are way to clicky .. you either fit in or are an outcast it's as simple as that.
some censorship on the forums is a good thing ... you get less spam. ... but the members of the fourms should have a degree of "self moderation" about the stuff they post.
anyway ... that's my 2p's worth ...
Crushers
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2011
- Messages
- 499
you could open a forum for off colored jokes and threads of questionable content and make it by permission only (they have that on Mud). seems to work very well. political, religious, off colored are all hidden from the general view and those that apply for permission then know what they are getting into and can't complain about it.
personal jabs will still get you the boot though.
personal jabs will still get you the boot though.
Freedom of speech doesn't mean that you can say what ever you like. Sorry, but it doesn't. It means that you have a right to express views but that isn't the same as saying whatever you like with total impunity.
Saying that anyone who migrates to another country should learn its laws and speak its language is one thing. But to say that anyone who doesn't should have their eyes burned out and their children disembowelled is another thing completely. Saying something on here which would be construed as offensive by any rational person, then claiming it as freedom of speech is frankly bollocks. There are boundaries that are clear to most. Saying that anyone with the letter Q anywhere in their name should be thrown in a bear pit is just someone who needs help. But to say that you hate anyone who doesn't look and act like you do is xenophobic. OK there are some areas which are less clear than others but to ask 'why is it ok to tell a joke about two Irish guys in a bar, but not ok to tell one about raping and murdering a child' just tells me that an individual really does have a broken gauge. I am not advocating that either is right, but if you believe them to be of equally offensive potential then you are deluded.
This isn't about defending those whom you feel may be offended in some sort of moral politically correct crusade on their behalf, it's about being offended yourself by someone you know, being be so crass as to post something utterly and overtly offensive to any other decent person. Mostly, it's disappointing.
Look, if someone came on here and said they'd been to the Amazon and met the Bongo Bongo tribe, taken out a gun and shot them all in the head, it wouldn't matter if there were no such tribe. It is the fact that someone thinks that this is acceptable material for a forum. It's about intent. That person would concern me. I'm not worried about the Bongos; I'm worried about YOU. In one of the discussions it was said that you couldn't cause offence, only take offence. Well, you can't take offence at nothing. Something has to be there to take offence of. Yes, people can be over sensitive at times, I agree, but when the needle swings firmly into the 'Errrr' sector then please don't be surprised when there is push back.
There is a difference between funny and cruel. If you haven't learned that then stick to posts about Landcrusers.
Saying that anyone who migrates to another country should learn its laws and speak its language is one thing. But to say that anyone who doesn't should have their eyes burned out and their children disembowelled is another thing completely. Saying something on here which would be construed as offensive by any rational person, then claiming it as freedom of speech is frankly bollocks. There are boundaries that are clear to most. Saying that anyone with the letter Q anywhere in their name should be thrown in a bear pit is just someone who needs help. But to say that you hate anyone who doesn't look and act like you do is xenophobic. OK there are some areas which are less clear than others but to ask 'why is it ok to tell a joke about two Irish guys in a bar, but not ok to tell one about raping and murdering a child' just tells me that an individual really does have a broken gauge. I am not advocating that either is right, but if you believe them to be of equally offensive potential then you are deluded.
This isn't about defending those whom you feel may be offended in some sort of moral politically correct crusade on their behalf, it's about being offended yourself by someone you know, being be so crass as to post something utterly and overtly offensive to any other decent person. Mostly, it's disappointing.
Look, if someone came on here and said they'd been to the Amazon and met the Bongo Bongo tribe, taken out a gun and shot them all in the head, it wouldn't matter if there were no such tribe. It is the fact that someone thinks that this is acceptable material for a forum. It's about intent. That person would concern me. I'm not worried about the Bongos; I'm worried about YOU. In one of the discussions it was said that you couldn't cause offence, only take offence. Well, you can't take offence at nothing. Something has to be there to take offence of. Yes, people can be over sensitive at times, I agree, but when the needle swings firmly into the 'Errrr' sector then please don't be surprised when there is push back.
There is a difference between funny and cruel. If you haven't learned that then stick to posts about Landcrusers.
Chris Green90
Well-Known Member
Sorry to disappoint you Chris. That was never my intent. I can't say that I agree with everything that I have posted but what I have tried to post is what I consider to be fact.
Opinion is a difficult thing to judge really. Although everyone is entitled to one there is again a limit. There are things that are proven beyond doubt. You can have an opinion on these things but if it goes against the proof then your opinion is wrong. In the same way you can have the opinion that the idiots in woolwich should be hung drawn and quartered but the law states they can only recieve a max of life in prision.
I can't say that I agree with that but those are the rules
Opinion is a difficult thing to judge really. Although everyone is entitled to one there is again a limit. There are things that are proven beyond doubt. You can have an opinion on these things but if it goes against the proof then your opinion is wrong. In the same way you can have the opinion that the idiots in woolwich should be hung drawn and quartered but the law states they can only recieve a max of life in prision.
I can't say that I agree with that but those are the rules
Graham
Well-Known Member
Listen to these three ladies singing, they tell you why you shouldn't do some things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_iKBIgUtSs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_iKBIgUtSs
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Rob
Well-Known Member
And it seems that anything does not go on here otherwise we would not be having this discussion.
Wayne, although it may sound like a good idea for a private area where you request permission to gain access to it but do we really want this to be a forum where questionable comments/jokes/statements are acceptable even if they are hidden from view?
Graham
Well-Known Member
.If they are questionable comments/jokes/statements those who would question them would not have to see them, unless they did have sneaky looks now and then?and if they then complained we would all know they had been peeking.
My point exactly, Thank you Chas.
Rob, lighten up a bit,
Gra.
