Help Please, my 2002 Colorado cuts out randomly. It's a mystery?

Uromastyxman

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Hello fellow Toyota fans. I'm new to this forum and have joined because I have a problem. My beloved Colorado 2002 Diesel has started to randomly cut out suddenly. No spluttering or hint it's going to happen, It's as if someone just turns it off at the key. It's happened about five times. The first time was when I was stationary on my drive after just pulling in. it then happened again on the dual carriageway at about 50 mph and I had to get on the hard shoulder and put it into park to start it. It starts immediately with no problem. I took it to my Toyota guys and they checked the fault codes. They said they couldn't be a 100 %sure but that they'd seen it happen before with these codes and it was usually the fuel suction valves and they replaced these.

£600.00 lighter I drove the car away and a week later it happened again. Instant cut off. The garage took it back for 11 days but told me the same codes had come up but that they couldn't repeat the error and couldn't isolate the problem. They were stumped, and admitted defeat, however I am still £600 down and the car still randomly cuts out.

It did it again last night on the dual carriage. I noticed the front passenger window was open an inch and was making a noise, so I put my fingers on the two buttons for the front electric windows to close them and the car cut out instantly. There is no doubt the cut out was triggered by the window buttons. It started immediately no problem. It feels like an electrical problem rather than a fuel problem. I was driving at night with the ac on , the lights and the radio so I was wondering if it is a short circuit or overload of some sort. I'm not a mechanic. The garage have said the windows should be on their own circuit and they can't understand it. They said bring it in and they'll check the codes.

Does anyone have any ideas or experience of this? If I can't fix it I'll have to sell it for scrap, even though I'd hoped to drive it for another 5 or 10 years. Then I'll have to by another LC anyway. I thought the cut out being triggered by the windows would help the garage isolate the cause, however because it's a 2002 car the fault codes are not very definitive.

Your help would be appreciated as I'm facing a huge cost because this fault can't be diagnosed and I can't drive the car with the kids in it. Thanks in advance. Andy
 

Beau

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Hi and welcome to the forum.

Firstly, I assume your Colorado has the D4D lump in it, is this correct? Anyway I have two theories for you to look into.

First one would be a poor earth somewhere in the vehicle. Considering it's triggering the engine to shut down, I'll be looking at the main ones within the engine bay. A loose earth or a earth not grounded properly can do this. This goes for all the wires really, make sure everything's connected as it should be. Check the engine bay for all the main grounds. I'm not too sure where they are in the D4D engine bay, but it shouldn't be so hard to find.

My second theory is your spill control valve malfunctioning. I had this exact problem with the exact symptoms you have described, except it wasn't being triggered due to me operating my window. The spill control valve, also known as a shut off valve is a tube like object which is normally located at the back of the fuel pump. Here's the thing, I'm not sure if the D4D lump even has this on it's pump as it's direct injection.... someone else will have to help you here! If it does, then it's a possibility, if not, then you can ignore this. Definitely sounds electrical though.
 

Uromastyxman

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Hi and welcome to the forum.

Firstly, I assume your Colorado has the D4D lump in it, is this correct? Anyway I have two theories for you to look into.

First one would be a poor earth somewhere in the vehicle. Considering it's triggering the engine to shut down, I'll be looking at the main ones within the engine bay. A loose earth or a earth not grounded properly can do this. This goes for all the wires really, make sure everything's connected as it should be. Check the engine bay for all the main grounds. I'm not too sure where they are in the D4D engine bay, but it shouldn't be so hard to find.

My second theory is your spill control valve malfunctioning. I had this exact problem with the exact symptoms you have described, except it wasn't being triggered due to me operating my window. The spill control valve, also known as a shut off valve is a tube like object which is normally located at the back of the fuel pump. Here's the thing, I'm not sure if the D4D lump even has this on it's pump as it's direct injection.... someone else will have to help you here! If it does, then it's a possibility, if not, then you can ignore this. Definitely sounds electrical though.

Hi Beau, thanks for your reply. I'll pass your suggestions on to the Toyota garage. They've told me to come in and they'll plug it in and read the fault codes. Unfortunately they've done this twice already and gotten nowhere. The problem is that the fault codes do not definitively isolate the problem, and because they're guessing they don't even know if they've fixed the issue. So unless they see an obvious problem they're just charging me more money for their time. I really need a Toyota detective for this problem I think.

I don't suppose anyone knows a Toyota genius in the Surrey area do they?

I'll post more as this unfolds.

Cheers

Andy
 

Uromastyxman

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The Toyota garage just plugged it into their fault reader and it brought up fault code 97(2) this indicates: An EDU circuit malfunction, an open or short in the EDU circuit, EDU, Fuel relief valve,Injector,ECM. This is the same fault code that appeared before and they've said the most likely problem with this fault code is the fuel suction valves, which they've already replaced. The mechanic who worked on it previously is away until Friday, so I'll ring back then. It might be a case of just replacing components until the problem stops, I can't think of what else to to, the alternative is to scrap the car and spend £20,000 or more on a another used LC, Which seems a bit pointless to me as my car runs great apart from this cutting out. They said the window button is on a different circuit so couldn't have triggered it, however it cut out immediately that I touched the button and I have no doubt that it did something in the car to cause the cut out. Any ideas would be gratefully received.


Cheers

Andy
 
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thewormman

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I think I would sit in your LC on the driveway with it running and try to make it cut out. Switch on everything full load then various things on and off till it does it again. Even move it back and forward to find our if something is loose. If it cuts out then replicate it by repeating so at least you have a starting point. The idea of an earth being a problem sounds logical as when the extra load of the windows was added sometimes a bad earth will spark at this point and lose connection. Sometimes its just a coincidence as well! A toyota garage is working in a throw away age, 1) computer says this 2) Throw part away and fit new part 3) Repeat till customer does not return, can be very expensive for something simple!

If it wont cut out then maybe there is a partial break in a wire somewhere that is disconnecting when its loaded/hot? I had this with a car that had a broken wire in the ignition circuit, it was fine when cold but once the engine bay got hot the wire insulation expanded and separated the 2 ends of the wire!

Really trying to MAKE it happen is the start of tracking it down, good luck
 

Shayne

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Checking the earths sounds good but considering your already £600 down i wonder if anyone would be kind enough to post photos of there location so you can check yourself ?

Failing that the ignition key barrel is where i would begin because it's connected to all the electrics and after all its just a switch and if a wire in there has worn bare (connected to your windows for example though it could be anything) there's no reason the windows wouldn't continue to work , but when that wire touches the ignition it just switches everything off same as turning the key would .

This is guesswork of course but its what i'm thinking .
 

Uromastyxman

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I think I would sit in your LC on the driveway with it running and try to make it cut out. Switch on everything full load then various things on and off till it does it again. Even move it back and forward to find our if something is loose. If it cuts out then replicate it by repeating so at least you have a starting point. The idea of an earth being a problem sounds logical as when the extra load of the windows was added sometimes a bad earth will spark at this point and lose connection. Sometimes its just a coincidence as well! A toyota garage is working in a throw away age, 1) computer says this 2) Throw part away and fit new part 3) Repeat till customer does not return, can be very expensive for something simple!

If it wont cut out then maybe there is a partial break in a wire somewhere that is disconnecting when its loaded/hot? I had this with a car that had a broken wire in the ignition circuit, it was fine when cold but once the engine bay got hot the wire insulation expanded and separated the 2 ends of the wire!

Really trying to MAKE it happen is the start of tracking it down, good luck

EUREKA? I sat on the drive and managed to repeat the fault by turning all the electrics on and then operating the electric window buttons. The engine cut out immediately. This is a huge clue. I'm now going to try repeating it by trying it with certain items switched off.

I'm ringing The Toyota garage tomorrow as the mechanic in question is back.

I really hope that being able to repeat the fault will help them pinpoint the problem. Fingers crossed.

Andy
 

Scott

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Sounds like your making progress. Personally I wouldn't take it back to the Toyota garage, by the sounds of it they only read the fault codes and then follow the computers diagnosis. As this is looking like an electrical fault it may well fall out of their comfort zone. Your money may be better spent finding a good vehicle electrician who will systematically work through the circuits until he isolates your fault.
 

cavanmick

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As someone said earlier in the thread I reckon it's an earth issue, when you put on all the consumables it steals the earth from something important, be well worth removing them and cleaning up all the contact points.
 

cavanmick

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Simple way to test it is to use a jump lead from the negative of the battery to somewhere on the engine and check if it will cut out again.
 

Uromastyxman

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As someone said earlier in the thread I reckon it's an earth issue, when you put on all the consumables it steals the earth from something important, be well worth removing them and cleaning up all the contact points.


I just sat in it and experimented. I put all the electrics on: Lights, Radio,
Air Con. Then I tried each electric window individually and the car did not cut out. Then I noticed I had not turned on the sat nav and when I did it cut out. The sat nav is not one that is integral to the car(built in). I then started again with everything on and using two window buttons cut the engine. I then started turning each electrical item off one at a time and using two windows buttons cut it. In the end everything was off and the windows were still cutting it. I noticed when I started moving the windows that the engine would falter. It seemed as though the more power I drew the more fluttery the engine got. I'm not a mechanic, but if the batteries were weak, could drawing too much power by having everything on at once cause the ECU to panic and shut the engine off? Or is this more likely to be a short circuit in the window wiring caused by using two window buttons at once? Sometimes using the two back window buttons would cut the engine. The garage have told me that the Window circuit is separate from the fuel pump circuit, so does this mean that if anything electrical happening in the car effects the ECU, and that cuts the fuel pump, does that mean that the fault code will accuse the fuel pump, just because it's the fuel pump that has stopped working, even though the fuel pump of itself is not faulty? But then it was plugging the sat nav in as well that cut it the first time. And initially the windows would not cut it out. This implies its a general drawing of power throughout the car rather than the windows. If I had the car rolling it would usually be with lights radio sat nav etc etc already on, so it would be the windows that I would probably touch on route, and often two buttons at once
(I don't know why I do this) and this would be the proverbial straw that would break the camel's back. But I'm not a mechanic and I'm probably over simplifying the issue.

The garage seem relieved that I can repeat it and I have it booked in for Wednesday morning. Fingers crossed they can sort this. Not only do I not want to buy a new LC (not for another 5 or 10 years anyway) but I don't want to scrap my Colorado. It still runs really well (despite this first ever glitch in 10 years, it's never failed to start in a decade.) and It's great for carrying the kids and their friends, great for taking items to the dump or picking up big items. And when I stick it through a car wash it still scrubbs up really well. I've driven all over Europe in it. I've been reading all the reviews about LC's and apparently they still kick the butt of all other competitors.

I'll post next week. Hopefully with good news.
 

Beau

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If the cruiser starts fine then I doubt it'll be battery linked. Although it is the windows that are kicking the engine off, it's due to the power they draw which then short circuits somewhere and cuts the engine out. It's beginning to sound more like a earth wire now. I'm 4000 miles away from my cruiser but I would show you pictures of the earths if I could.

They would be black wires earthed against the body in the engine bay. You have a main one that runs off the earth off your battery, check all of these. Also check the battery lugs are tight and the batteries themselves aren't loose in there clamps.
 

Steve H

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If your D4D is wired the same as my KZ-TE then you will have twin battery's. The nearside one is the one connected to the live of the starter and the earth wire wil go to the engine block on that side. On the drivers side battery, the earth goes to the engine block underneath the alternator and is thinner than the starter earth. There should also be an earth cable going to a bolt on the inner wing. These all need to be checked for tightness and corrosion. I added another earth from my nearside battery to the inner wing on the other side just to make sure I have a good earth to the body. Might also be worth trying a jump lead to the alternator in case the earth to the mounting isn't doing as it should. Worth checking the alternator connections as well. HTH

Just read this again and you say that it still cuts out with everything switched off and using two window buttons. Between the door and the body is a rubber tube that carries all the wires. peel this back and check that there are no wires rubbed through on the door or body shorting out when you operate the windows. I had this on mine but the central locking wires went, stopping the doors from locking with the button.
 
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frank rabbets

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Now you have a clue I would get an auto electrician. Toyota ones can't think logically when something unusual occurs. An auto electrician will have experience of weird problems. The Toyota people say the windows are on a different circuit. Well that proves they can't think because all the circuits are connected to earth and live, some share common wires, and when one circuit plays up it can affect others, Sounds as if you've got a short which cuts out the pump or a loose earth. Simples.
 
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