Don't like the adverts? Click here to remove them
Interested in Firearms... watch this
- Thread starter Olazz
- Start date
I'm not an advocate of gun ownership, but I admire the way this was presented. You can do almost anything with statistics, but he did a very good job on this one!
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2010
- Messages
- 6,052
- Country Flag
It's a lot like an plane crashing. No news coverage for the 500 people who died in individual car crashes but when they all grouped together then there is hype. I see no reason for owning a semi-automatic gun but if I want to own one and shoot the crap out of cans, why not?
Stopping selling them does not stop the crazy guy from killing people but it is an easy and close-to-heart thing for the masses.
Stopping selling them does not stop the crazy guy from killing people but it is an easy and close-to-heart thing for the masses.
Well, many know my position on firearms, but that's largely irrelevant. Why? Because this isn't America. It's a wholly different argument. And actually becoming a slightly tired one at that. I am all for gun control. Why wouldn't I be? But what does gun control actually mean? To me, it's about only the right people having guns, in the right context, for the right reasons. I am not sure that I can actually support every area of legitimate firearms ownership - certainly not in the US. I would love an AR15 - M16, oh yes, what a fantastic way to have fun. But outside of pure enjoyment of shooting something as mechanically beautiful as that, it has no other purpose in civilian hands. The reason that they are section 5 and prohibited here is that we just couldn't guarantee that we'd give them to the right people. However, in the issue is not only giving them to the right people, but also in keeping them somewhere safe! I can say categorically that if I had one it would be locked away as tight as you like. Nothing to do with any laws, but because it's what you do with guns! Who the hell puts a Glock in their sock drawer?
Anyway, I have had all these arguments and more for years and years and it's made no difference. We have strict gun laws in the UK, trust me. And pretty good enforcement. However, gun owners have for years been trying to tell the authorities how to make the laws better and therefore the country safer, but the just don't listen. All they do is tighten laws that make no difference. Much of this is because the wrong people are in charge of licensing and control. How's this then - two bullets, virtually identical to the eye, both lethal. One can be sent through the post with no checks and one can't. Not at all. Why? Because one box says 'Target bullets' on the box.
See? Not sensible is it.
Anyway, he did a good job of remembering his scrip, but it was hardly a hostile audience was it. I love shooting sports, but hate anyway and anything that tries to justify something largely unjustifiable. Even if it goes against the grain.
C
Anyway, I have had all these arguments and more for years and years and it's made no difference. We have strict gun laws in the UK, trust me. And pretty good enforcement. However, gun owners have for years been trying to tell the authorities how to make the laws better and therefore the country safer, but the just don't listen. All they do is tighten laws that make no difference. Much of this is because the wrong people are in charge of licensing and control. How's this then - two bullets, virtually identical to the eye, both lethal. One can be sent through the post with no checks and one can't. Not at all. Why? Because one box says 'Target bullets' on the box.
See? Not sensible is it.
Anyway, he did a good job of remembering his scrip, but it was hardly a hostile audience was it. I love shooting sports, but hate anyway and anything that tries to justify something largely unjustifiable. Even if it goes against the grain.
C
Olazz
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2010
- Messages
- 1,428
- Country Flag
Dont agree
An impassioned response Chris, but I don't agree with your sentiment. Who decides who are the right people? That's the whole argument, it's not really about gun control or knife control etc is it. Its about "people control" and controlling what we can and can't do, say and don't say, tolerate and don't tolerate.
At one sweep of the pen, law abiding citizens instantly become criminals. Good enforcement you say, oh yes easy to enforce gun control when you deal with a law abiding individual who lets you into their home fills in all the forms etc etc..
Don't see much strict enforcement with those who don't care about the law. Funny how they can get guns despite the UK's strict gun laws.
An impassioned response Chris, but I don't agree with your sentiment. Who decides who are the right people? That's the whole argument, it's not really about gun control or knife control etc is it. Its about "people control" and controlling what we can and can't do, say and don't say, tolerate and don't tolerate.
At one sweep of the pen, law abiding citizens instantly become criminals. Good enforcement you say, oh yes easy to enforce gun control when you deal with a law abiding individual who lets you into their home fills in all the forms etc etc..
Don't see much strict enforcement with those who don't care about the law. Funny how they can get guns despite the UK's strict gun laws.
Marius De Kock
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2010
- Messages
- 379
- Country Flag
Gee daai man 'n Bells!
Don't like the adverts? Click here to remove them
No no mate I think you misunderstand me. I agree entirely with you
It's because they can't control people that they do something which gives the impression of action
I regularly still meet people who think pistols are kept in gun clubs!!!!
I'm with you
Lock and load buddy
It's because they can't control people that they do something which gives the impression of action
I regularly still meet people who think pistols are kept in gun clubs!!!!
I'm with you
Lock and load buddy
Roger Fairclough
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2010
- Messages
- 1,106
I have had a shotgun certificate for an over and under 12 bore that I used for vermin control and various clay pigeon disciplines. I had a firearms certificate for .22 and 9 mm pistols for target shooting. I had a black powder licence to fuel the needs for 2 Remington .44 pistols, and an Enfield carbine, again for target shooting. I had to give them all up because of a damaged shoulder but it was just before legislation came in to ban the pistols anyway.
If you look back at the various incidents in the UK where a lone gunman has gone berserk and slaughtered innocent people, the thing that sticks out was the fact that the gunman was off questionable temperament, yet the police did nothing to take their guns from them.
Since hand guns were banned, the decent people who just wanted to use their guns on a target range have been denied their sport yet the number of illegal semi automatics has proliferated.
Roger
If you look back at the various incidents in the UK where a lone gunman has gone berserk and slaughtered innocent people, the thing that sticks out was the fact that the gunman was off questionable temperament, yet the police did nothing to take their guns from them.
Since hand guns were banned, the decent people who just wanted to use their guns on a target range have been denied their sport yet the number of illegal semi automatics has proliferated.
Roger
Olazz
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2010
- Messages
- 1,428
- Country Flag
Also fully agree with the above - Whilst I don't agree with the total ban here, but it feels a hell of a lot more logical than the 'just go and buy a gun & ammo' in your average shopping mall with no license or background checks!
But for now, I'm quite happy to practice the sport when visiting the states
AR15 you say.... bit weak to be honest, feels a bit like an air rifle.....
But for now, I'm quite happy to practice the sport when visiting the states
AR15 you say.... bit weak to be honest, feels a bit like an air rifle.....
I remember a kid at school loosing an arrow nearly vertical. It went over the gymnasium (40 feet above the playing fields) across the tennis courts and came down into the roof of a classroom. It punched through the corrugated iron roof and finally stopped with the head sticking 4" through the ceiling above a school desk.
A good bow is an extremely deadly weapon.
A good bow is an extremely deadly weapon.
And entirely unregulated in this country unless you actually commit a crime at which point it becomes a weapon. Until that point it's simply sports equipment.
In the US you simply have all of the bad bits all in one pot. Not just a couple of the elements, but all of them. No security requirments, no people controls, ability to carry, availability etc etc and of course it's a massive country. Statistically it's bound to go wrong sometime somewhere. I liked his stats - more people were probably killed by chewing gum than by guns, doesn't mean you ban chewing gum. On paper, it sounds sensible. Difference is I think that innocent people aren't murdered in groups by someone using chewing gum. I don't want to go all 'work related' here, but there is a thing called 'outrage' which is really relevant. Not going to bore you but it's to do with the extent to which people are angry about something. Society doesn't get angry about some things. It doesn't always blame people for things. But guns is a subject that just whips up great debate. No one says that outrage has to be driven by any logic.
C
In the US you simply have all of the bad bits all in one pot. Not just a couple of the elements, but all of them. No security requirments, no people controls, ability to carry, availability etc etc and of course it's a massive country. Statistically it's bound to go wrong sometime somewhere. I liked his stats - more people were probably killed by chewing gum than by guns, doesn't mean you ban chewing gum. On paper, it sounds sensible. Difference is I think that innocent people aren't murdered in groups by someone using chewing gum. I don't want to go all 'work related' here, but there is a thing called 'outrage' which is really relevant. Not going to bore you but it's to do with the extent to which people are angry about something. Society doesn't get angry about some things. It doesn't always blame people for things. But guns is a subject that just whips up great debate. No one says that outrage has to be driven by any logic.
C
Not entirely unregulated Chris, there are two governing bodies GNAS and FITA, but they are mainly to do with the archer and his equipment at sporting events, but the law states a bow must not be carried assembled (or strung) in public and the equipment must be in a case or bag when being moved to a sporting event. A long bow and a recurve bow (like mine) can be unstrung but a compound bow cannot so I don't know how the law applies to compounds.
Last edited:
Sorry Chas, which law says that?
When I said unregulated, I didn't mean that the sport wasn't regulated. I meant serial numbered parts, a licence issued by a government dept etc. Not rules on archery. They are trying to push through the licensing of air rifles at the moment. I just have no idea what that will achieve.
Chris
When I said unregulated, I didn't mean that the sport wasn't regulated. I meant serial numbered parts, a licence issued by a government dept etc. Not rules on archery. They are trying to push through the licensing of air rifles at the moment. I just have no idea what that will achieve.
Chris
I think it is covered by Pointed and Bladed Articles offences (Section 139, Criminal Justice Act, 1988). not sure though, arrows certainly, bow not so sure, but knowing how officious some Police officers can be if you haven't got a plausible reason for carrying it, it could be deemed an offensive weapon which is an offence to carry it in a public place. While Googling I've just found out there is a town just inside the English border (may be Chester?) where it is still legal to shoot a Welshman with an arrow providing it is market day. 
Remind me again, when is market day Chas? Now stop that.
Reason I ask was not to be picky, but it adds to my general understanding of this stuff. I get asked a lot of left field questions. There are lots of things covered by law that are not specifically enshrined in law. ie I shall be an offence to ....Shoot a Welshman with an arrow on any day other than market day looks like something statute. But to carry a bow in public might not be specifically logged, however, being in possision of an offensive weapon might do the trick. We have all of these arguments with rifles. What constitutes a public place? Well the wilds of Scotland are public. But the law was never written to mean that, so there's a huge amount of room for misinterpretation and naturally case precedent.
In your case I would argue M'lord that a bow is not an offensive weapon. Not unless coupled with an arrow! Same as a rifle with no ammo. Hah, if only that would wash.
C
Reason I ask was not to be picky, but it adds to my general understanding of this stuff. I get asked a lot of left field questions. There are lots of things covered by law that are not specifically enshrined in law. ie I shall be an offence to ....Shoot a Welshman with an arrow on any day other than market day looks like something statute. But to carry a bow in public might not be specifically logged, however, being in possision of an offensive weapon might do the trick. We have all of these arguments with rifles. What constitutes a public place? Well the wilds of Scotland are public. But the law was never written to mean that, so there's a huge amount of room for misinterpretation and naturally case precedent.
In your case I would argue M'lord that a bow is not an offensive weapon. Not unless coupled with an arrow! Same as a rifle with no ammo. Hah, if only that would wash.
C
No I did realise you weren't being picky, I see what you mean in your last sentence, and if you want strange statute laws look here; http://www.vincelewis.net/law.html
