Is that a puddle under my 80?

[Chris]

Looks like the gremlins may have stuck. All that exertion this weekend has resulted in a leak in the worst place. Until proven otherwise that is. It's clearly ATF and looks to be coming out of the bell housing.

Damn

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Bugger

 

[Dave Docwra]

Double bugger

 

[adrianr]

Oh dear, what a shame.

 

[Chris]

Presume this is tranny split, tc out replace seal? Working away at second so no access to manual. Iran it's not terminal or anything.

C

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

If it's just a bit of a leak they can go on like that for ages Chris. There are seals on the input shaft that can go and there are seals in the torque converter so could be either and you won't know till you get the box off and then only if it's leaving a tell tale dribble from the input shaft

 

[Chris]

Jon, just looking at TOYO and FSM. Not sure quite how it all goes together, but I think that when I pulled the old one apart with Scott, the TC simply slid onto the splines of the input shaft into the main box. If there was a seal there that's probably not that hard to replace. But there are deeper seals behind the oil pump if I am reading it correctly. Now if they have gone the oil still has to get past the outer seal. So if it IS leaking then isn't it most likely to be the outer seal? Shame Karl isn't around or I'd go and play with one of his dead boxes to get an idea. I don't want to order a heap of parts I don't need.

I am so not looking forward to pulling the trans out again. But that Transfer case is definitely coming off first. That's half the weight of the whole thing.

I have a spare TC too - but how do you inspect one to know if it's any good?

Chris

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

The TC seals are internal / none serviceable AFAIK and you can't really tell what state a TC is in until it's cut open to be rebuilt I have a dysfunctional box and TC in my lockup waiting to be turned into a pile of bits ... didn't you keep the one your truck came with?

 

[Chris]

Yes, look at last line of post Jon, I have a spare one.

Wasn't leaking as far as I know. So are these inside the tube in the TC so that they seal OVER the input shaft? That's sneaky. But I can just swap it plus the other accessible ones too.

Chris

Lock up huh? That's where you keep all the good stuff.


C

 

[sae70]

I'm feeling your pain here Chris I still have the sound of impending doom coming up the steering wheel & still no real idea of whats causing it Maybe it's time to buy a Land Rover

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Yes to the TC seals, without seals the ATF being pumped through the TC would just piss out wouldn't it I was talking about your old gearbox being discarded not the TC If it would help then I'll fetch mine from the lockup and take off the bits we think you'll have to tackle? It's disfunctional and destined to be turned into a pile of bits anyway only the timing is to suit you

 

[Chris]

Old transmission got stripped for useful bit and moved on Jon.

I have had a look at the torque converter today and I cannot see any seal in there at all. There are two clear splined sections on seems fixed and the other rotates which would make sense but in terms of a seal there doesn't seem to be anything even close to the 'tube' as it were. Now, if you think about the TC being shaped like a mushroom, the outer stalk is very obviously polished in one ring where it passed through a seal in the end of the bell housing. It looks to me as though the extended stalk (or tube) on the TC passes through that so that the open end is inside the transmission. So ATF can't pee out everywhere as it is the other side of the seal pictured in the diagram (part 90311?42010). I would think that it's this seal that would have gone. Not sure how else you'd arrange this. The ATF has to get in and out of the TC body

Any thoughts? Not dismissing the idea of internal torque converter seals Jon, but it would be unfair of Mr T to make you pay £1700 just because a seal went. Wouldn't it?

Chris

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

I would have to go to my lockup and take pics and annotate them to explain any better but the input shaft seal is the one most likely to be leaking anyway not the TC IMO (and may have been damaged in the fire).

 

[Chris]

Sorry Jon, I'm getting confused now. The TC is that rounded drum thing with vanes inside and a short tube sticking out of it yes? Well I cannot see a seal anywhere inside that nor anywhere you'd put one. But on the outside of it, around the tube there is deff a pattern left by a seal that it passes through. This seal is in the end of the bell housing where the tube on the drum thing passes through into the oil pump bit. It's that seal that I think must be leaking. I'm confused 'cos it sounds like you're saying the same thing now - but I thought you'd felt that it was seals inside the drum thing.

Odd thing is that although there is tonnes of stuff in the FSM, I can't find anything about the TC front seal. I'd figure that without the drum thing in there (which I'm sure is the TC washing machine spinning drum bit) there should be a gap around the shaft sticking through it so that the seal can be prised off without having to pull the whole oil pump. You know me. If it's technical, I'd rather not take it to bits. Someone said pinion preload once and I passed out.

Other than leaking all over my drive, is there any major 'ooh dear' with this leak. Is it simply weeping there or is there tonnes of pressure about to be unleashed whilst driving.

Chris

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

The TC is that rounded drum thing with vanes inside

Yes

and a short tube sticking out of it yes?

No, I'm remembering a locator that goes into the centre of the fly wheel and helps line everything up so you can get the bolts fitted to hold the TC to the fly wheel? I don't remember any tubes sticking out

If I haven't lost my marbles, the TC slides onto the gearbox input shaft but no part of the TC passes through a seal on the gearbox. Where the gearbox input shaft passes through into the gearbox is what I was calling the input seal and the most probable cause of your weeping

Other than leaking all over my drive, is there any major 'ooh dear' with this leak. Is it simply weeping there or is there tonnes of pressure about to be unleashed whilst driving.

If it's a slight weep I think you are safe for ages but if it's more of a dribble then it might let go quite soon. You've double checked it's not just a bad fit at the lower dipstick tube and then just being blown about? Clutching at straws for you

 

[Chris]

Ahh hah, right then we are deff on different pages. The TC DOES have a tube coming out of the middle of it. On one side there is a little tit that locates into the starter ring / flywheel thing (I know it not a flywheel as such) but on the other open side there is a tube with two slots cut into it which passes through that outer seal over the input shaft coming out of the gearbox. It's about 3.5 " long according to my middle finger. This means that all of the fluid is the other side of that seal. We are talking about the same seal, but it seals OVER the tube from the TC. Not onto the shaft itself. As far as I can see, Jon anyway without having both parts. But there is a polished ring commonly seen where a tube runs in a seal.

But either way, it's that seal that I need to get to. Where's Scott when you need him. At least I have been there before so I know what's what.

Chris

 

[Graham]

Good luck Chris,

I am sure you will have it all sorted soon.
Just not a job you or any one would want to look forward to.

Graham

 

[Chris]

This is the TC

By the power of Admin, Alakazam....

Chris

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

I haven't seen a TC with a tube out the back before Chris, and I still haven't

 

[Scott]

Where's Scott when you need him. At least I have been there before so I know what's what.

Chris

Hi Chris, sorry to hear of the ATF leak, do I and the engine crane need to be on standby again?

As for the torque convertor I can't remember exactly what it looked like when we swapped the transmission My excuse is that I was tired that weekend, and I'm sticking to it!

Now I have had the torque convertor out of a LR before and I distinctly remember it being as Chirs remembers his, the TC had a shaft coming out of the rear that had two cut outs in it, these cut outs had to engage with the oil pump drive, whilst the shaft passed through the input seal. I believe that this is the seal that keeps the ATF in the box, and that the ATF enters and exits the TC via the shaft that protrudes through the input shaft seal? I haven't had time to thumb through the FSM (hence not posting), but I'd imagine the 80 has a similar set up. If not, how does the ATF get in and out of the TC?

I had my LR TC rebuilt and strengthen, (had the vanes/paddles brazed to the TC body, to help them cope with shock and the extra loads I put it through), and replaced the auto transmission input seal as a precaution when I had the the engine out.

Chris feel free to call and discuss.