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[lights,bulbs]

Hi Roman,
It might vary from vehicle to vehicle, but I seem to recall Christopher
noticed a 2.5volt drop on his LC, which is a bit more significant.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Mobile: 07971 540362
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift, ARB
 
Julian,
As it's been already mentioned voltage drop is normally caused not by
a wrong type of wire used by the manufacturer but by contact
resistance caused by corrosion. Replacing the harness is just as good
as cleaning all contacts and connectors, only more expensive and
bl00dy inconvenient. All you gain by using relays close to the
headlamps is eliminating a few contact points along the high current
path. The effect of wiring lenght is for all practical reasons
negligible.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:21:02 GMT, Julian Voelcker
<[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
It's been some years since I had to look up figures for incandescent
bulbs but here we go. These bulbs are best run at 11.8v, this gives
the best combination of light/life. They suffer a lot from a small
voltage drop, which is what the Toyota's provide so thoughtfully.
Increasing the wire size will overcome this but at the expense of
lifespan.
Regards, Clive.
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:29:43 +0000, Roman <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
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Christopher,
Excellent write up and good innovation, I would never have thought to use 3
core mains wire. I thought about using fused relays rather than in line
fuses not that it makes any difference. Any baling twine to go with the
tape?
Anthony
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Christopher Bell
Sent: 15 March 2005 12:01
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] [lights,bulbs]
Hi christopher
I had no problem replacing the inner bulbs, it only took a minute or so, it
is a bit fiddley with the batteries in the way ant the clips. My inner ones
do work and always have, there the ones that really make the difference on
the dark country roads at night. The inner connectors are different than the
H4 connectors, the inner ones have a connector just to fit the bottom of
the H1 bulb which only has one terminal at the base compared to the three at
the base of the H4.
They obviously do it differently on the later model (mine's 1996) - maybe
they added the adaptor later.
On the subject of the bulbs and the wiring. Yes its a question, what is
meant by upgrading the wiring, is it using thicker wiring or a different
type of wiring which loses less power on its way to the bulb.
Both . Toyota have put in relief relays for the headlights (in the fusebox
at the front left of the engine compartment) to relieve the current on the
dashboard switch and wiring, but they still manage to lose a lot of volts by
hook or by crook.
What I have done is:
* Use the existing sockets that attach to the bulbs to provide power
for separate relays.
* In fact you only need the H4 bulb socket on each side, as this
provides common, dipped and main.
* Thus I have two relays on each side: one for dipped beam and one for
main.
* The relays only draw a fraction of an amp each, so the existing
headlight wiring runs them easily.
* The "power" leads (+ve) to the relays have been been taken from
battery +ve terminal (RHS), and starter changeover switch (LHS)
* I have put a separate 40amp in-line fuse in each lead, and used
heavy duty cable.
* Then the +ve power goes one side of each relay, and the switched
side goes (heavy duty wiring again) to new headlight socket bases.
* -ve (heavy cable again) goes from chassis earth on each side - there
is a convenient bolt there for the purpose - to bulb socket base.
This way the current supply to the lights is as direct as possible, giving a
minimal voltage drop.
A safety note:
* Power each side separately through a separate fuse. Using a single
common fuse for everything leaves you in total darkness if it blows....
* Don't attach any wiring to the front LHS battery. This swaps to 24v
during starting.
* Be consistent with your wiring colours, ideally red or brown for
+ve, black for -ve.
I used ordinary 3 core 5amp mains cable for the "old headlight socket to
relay" wiring: using yellow/green (earth) for common, blue for dipped and
brown for main. On the heavy current side I used (separate) brown for main,
blue for dipped and black for earth.
I found that H4 headlight base units have the same dimensions as ordinary
car relays, so I scavenged a couple, ripped out their innards, soldered the
cable to their terminals, and these plugged directly into the old sockets.
Note that this (coil) side of the relays is not attached to chassis earth,
so it doesn't matter whether Toyota decided to switch +ve or -ve sides.
I took the +ve feed for the LHS assembly from the terminal on top of the
starter changeover relay simply because that is attached directly to +ve on
the RHS battery, and saved me stringing a cable across the front above the
radiator somewhere. Simply trace the heavy-duty cable back to the +ve
terminal on the RHS battery, and you have the correct terminal on the relay.
I made two units, one for each side. I bought a length of kitchen sink
drainpipe (99p for 2m), bashed it into a squarish cross-section by hammering
a piece of wood into it and heating it, and used roughly a 5" length of this
to hold the relays. I blocked off one end with silicone sealant, pushed the
relays in with the wires coming out of the other end, then wrapped liberally
with silage tape (wide masking tape) to water-proof it.
When sizing fuses and relays I allowed a factor of at least two. So the
load on main beam might be 130w + 100w = 230w each side, or about 17amps at
13.5volts, so I used 40 amp relays and fuses. In a similar vein all spade
terminals, connectors etc want to be heavy duty.
The end product is attached via those plastic ties to the cable ducts
running down each side next to the headlights. So I didn't drill any holes
or cut any Toyota wiring.
Here is a very quick & dirty wiring diagram
Hope this helps
Christopher Bell
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>Christopher,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>Excellent write up and good innovation, I
would never have thought to use 3 core mains wire.  I thought about using
fused relays rather than in line fuses not that it makes any difference.  Any
baling twine to go with the tape?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'>Anthony<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;
text-align:center'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]] <span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span>Christopher Bell

<span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span> 15 March 2005 12:01

<span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span> <st1:personName w:st=3D"on">[Email address removed]</st1:personName>

<span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span> RE: [ELCO] [lights,bulbs]</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hi christopher</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I had no problem
replacing the inner bulbs, it only took a minute or so, it is a bit fiddley
with the batteries in the way ant the clips. My inner ones do work and
always have, there the ones that really make the difference on the dark country
roads at night. The inner connectors are different than the H4 connectors, the
inner ones have a  connector just to fit the bottom of the H1 bulb which
only has one terminal at the base compared to the three at the base of the H4.<font
color=3Dblue><span style=3D'color:blue'> </span></font></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>They obviously do it differently on the later model (mine's 1996) -
maybe they added the adaptor later. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>On the subject of
the bulbs and the wiring. Yes its a question, what is meant by upgrading the
wiring, is it using thicker wiring or a different  type of wiring which
loses less power on its way to the bulb.<font color=3Dblue><span
style=3D'color:blue'> </span></font></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>Both .  <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Toyota</st1:place></st1:City>
have put in relief relays for the headlights (in the fusebox at the front left
of the engine compartment) to relieve the current on the dashboard switch and
wiring, but they still manage to lose a lot of volts by hook or by crook.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>What I have done is:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ul type=3Ddisc>
<li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Use
the existing sockets that attach to the bulbs to provide power for
separate relays. </span></font><o:p></o:p>
<li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>In
fact you only need the H4 bulb socket on each side, as this provides
common, dipped and main.</span></font><o:p></o:p>
<li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Thus
I have two relays on each side: one for dipped beam and one for main.</span></font><o:p></o:p>
<li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The
relays only draw a fraction of an amp each, so the existing headlight
wiring runs them easily.</span></font><o:p></o:p>
<li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The
"power" leads (+ve) to the relays have been been taken from
battery +ve terminal (RHS), and starter changeover switch (LHS)</span></font><o:p></o:p>
<li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I
have put a separate 40amp in-line fuse in each lead, and used heavy duty
cable.</span></font><o:p></o:p>
<li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Then
the +ve power goes one side of each relay, and the switched side goes
(heavy duty wiring again) to new headlight socket bases.</span></font><o:p></o:p>
<li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>-ve
(heavy cable again) goes from chassis earth on each side - there is a
convenient bolt there for the purpose - to bulb socket base.</span></font><o:p></o:p>
[/list]
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>This way the current supply to the lights is as direct as possible,
giving a minimal voltage drop.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>A safety note:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ul type=3Ddisc>
<li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Power each
side separately through a separate fuse. Using a single common fuse for
everything leaves you in total darkness if it blows....</span></font><o:p></o:p>
<li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Don't
attach any wiring to the front LHS battery. This swaps to 24v during
starting.</span></font><o:p></o:p>
<li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Be
consistent with your wiring colours, ideally red or brown for +ve, black
for -ve. </span></font><o:p></o:p>
[/list]
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>I used ordinary 3 core 5amp mains cable for the "old headlight
socket to relay" wiring: using yellow/green (earth) for common, blue for
dipped and brown for main.  On the heavy current side I used (separate)
brown for main, blue for dipped and black for earth. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>I found that H4 headlight base units have the same dimensions as ordinary
car relays, so I scavenged a couple, ripped out their innards, soldered the
cable to their terminals, and these plugged directly into the old
sockets.   Note that this (coil) side of the relays is not attached
to chassis earth, so it doesn't matter whether <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place
w:st=3D"on">Toyota</st1:place></st1:City> decided to switch +ve or -ve sides.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>I took the +ve feed for the LHS assembly from the terminal on top
of the starter changeover relay simply because that is attached directly
to +ve on the RHS battery, and saved me stringing a cable across the front
above the radiator somewhere.  Simply trace the heavy-duty cable back to
the +ve terminal on the RHS battery, and you have the correct terminal on the
relay.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>I made two units, one for each side.  I bought a length
of kitchen sink drainpipe (99p for 2m), bashed it into a squarish cross-section
by hammering a piece of wood into it and heating it, and used roughly a
5" length of this to hold the relays.  I blocked off one end with
silicone sealant, pushed the relays in with the wires coming out of the other
end, then wrapped liberally with silage tape (wide masking tape) to water-proof
it.  </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>When sizing fuses and relays I allowed a factor of at least
two.  So the load on main beam might be 130w + 100w =3D 230w each side, or
about 17amps at 13.5volts, so I used 40 amp relays and fuses.  In a
similar vein all spade terminals, connectors etc want to be heavy duty.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>The end product is attached via those plastic ties to the cable
ducts running down each side next to the headlights. So I didn't drill any
holes or cut any <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Toyota</st1:place></st1:City>
wiring.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>Here is a very quick & dirty wiring diagram</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'><img width=3D640 height=3D512 id=3D"_x0000_i1025"
src=3D"cid:[email protected]" align=3Dbaseline border=3D0></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>Hope this helps</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>Christopher Bell</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>
------=_NextPart_001_003C_01C5295D.E8F0A6F0--
 
Message
Hi Guys
Here I am again going on about the bulbs . I have been to the Auto Electrician and his point of view seems to be that it could be time consuming to replace the wiring harness to the front lights and he questioned if there would be a noticable difference. He thinks that the power lose from the wiring given the lenght it has to travel could be small and not justify replacing the wiring at all. Instead he sold me two 100/80 watt H4 bulbs and said they WILL make a difference that I will notice. He uses them for his vehicle all the time, and at 10 euro for the pair what the hell ill give them a try. He did say however that because of the extra strenght of the bulbs that they will burn the connector after a while say in two or three years time. He also said that if and when the connector burns out it is a gradual thing and will not leave me with no lights all of a sudden. The connectors he said are cheap and easy to replace. What do you guys think of this idea.
He will be wiring the reversing spots up for me next monday and when asked for a price he said it could be 100 euro, he said that the labour is now 50 euro an hour and the bits he will use aswell. He also told me that it is always better to get these things done by somebody who knows what they are doing so you dont have any shorts or fires. I agree with him cause you would not get a punture repair man to take apart your engine. I think its always fine if one can do these mods, but when you hear you have to pay a guy to fit or do something it always brings good ideas back to reality. I also checked with the test center and they confirmed that the reversing spots are no problem for the test and are legal once they are fitted properly. Christopher thanks for the specs but they are a bit above my head, I would be too nervious doing anything like that with my cruiser myself. I come up with the ideas but sadly need other people to do the work. Sadly I do not have a background in these matters but still learning the theory from you guys so thanks. I think its another matter to try and do something and have a high chance of messing it up and the sad part would be I would'nt even know how I messed it up to begin with. So I think best left to the experts or at least someone who knows what is what.
John C
92HDj 80 1HD-T Ireland
 
Thanks

The only problem with using fused relays is that you'd have to mount
them somewhere accessible in order to change the fuses. Looking at the
amount of crap in my engine compartment, including behind the lights,
after our little outing on Salisbury plain I think any extra wiring
needs to be well protected.

Also I haven't been that impressed with the fused relays I've seen to
date, as the connections at the end of the fuses are poor and not (IMHO)
suitable for heavy currents. I soldered everything I could, and crimped
what I couldn't.

I mounted my setup with the open end, lashed up with tape (but no baler
twine) pointing downwards to let any water drain out. It makes quite a
tidy installation, tucked out of the way and barely visible.

Christopher

ps: Don't knock silage tape - it's thick, black, 4 inches wide, and
sticks to anything. Brilliant stuff with many diverse uses (including
getting recalcitrant screw-in spotlight bulbs out of tight ceiling
fittings). I've even used it for its intended purpose, which is
covering holes in silage / haylage bale wrapping to keep the air out!
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Anthony Graham
Sent: 15 March 2005 12:53
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] [lights,bulbs]
Christopher,
Excellent write up and good innovation, I would never have thought to
use 3 core mains wire. I thought about using fused relays rather than
in line fuses not that it makes any difference. Any baling twine to go
with the tape?
Anthony
 
Don't like the adverts?  Click here to remove them
Hi Roman
When you say to clean all the contacts, do you mean the contacts at the
bulbs or is there more hidden away some where. Because if its only a matter
of cleaning the contacts at the bulbs with a bit of sandpaper hey even I
could do that. So I might be on to a winner here.
John c
92HDJ 80 1HD-T Ireland
 
|
| It's hard to argue with something that has a status of an urban myth,
| but for the sake of common sense let's agree that a Halogen bulb is
| more prone to failure when operated outside the design perimeters,
| which is always overvoltage and never undervoltage. You can't blow a
| car bulb by running it at 9V - you just get little light out if it.
I remember reading somewhere that the late unlamented "dim dip" headlight system caused premature failure of halogen bulbs because they were running at too low a temperature!
I can't remember exactly why, but it was something to do with vapour getting deposited through not being hot enough.
My 100w/90w bulbs last about 10 months, whereas I'd expect to get 2 to 3 years out of normal ones. I'm happy to take that shorter lifetime in exchange for the brighter output.
Christopher Bell
 
John,
Sorry to disappoint you, but it involves cleaning all contacts,
including the contacts in the stalk switch and all those that are
housed in non-protective connector shells.
Using sandpaper will improve things only for a short while - contact
will corrode even quicker once the silver or other galvanic coating is
removed. You use cleaning solvent to remove grime and oxide, or better
still a contact cleaner that cleans and protects the parts.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:33:40 -0000, john byrne <[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
Christopher,
You used a disgorged relay for the mail terminal to go into the H4 socket, I
thought of using a blown H4 bulb but was not happy with that thought as it
may be awkward to pull it apart I have a Auto wiring catalogue but can not
find a suitable male H4 plug. I had thought of mounting the relays to the
back of the battery box. The next question is which is the correct battery
to take the supply from? I suspect it is the one on the driver's side. I
have to agree totally with you comments especially concerning dip beam.
Living in the country and driving on narrow dark and often wet roads makes
for difficult night time viewing especially with on coming traffic. I do
have a solution and will reveal all some time late as I have a few other
things to attend to as well.
Anthony
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Christopher Bell
Sent: 15 March 2005 13:27
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] [lights,bulbs]
Thanks
The only problem with using fused relays is that you'd have to mount them
somewhere accessible in order to change the fuses. Looking at the amount of
crap in my engine compartment, including behind the lights, after our little
outing on Salisbury plain I think any extra wiring needs to be well
protected.
Also I haven't been that impressed with the fused relays I've seen to date,
as the connections at the end of the fuses are poor and not (IMHO) suitable
for heavy currents. I soldered everything I could, and crimped what I
couldn't.
I mounted my setup with the open end, lashed up with tape (but no baler
twine) pointing downwards to let any water drain out. It makes quite a tidy
installation, tucked out of the way and barely visible.
Christopher
ps: Don't knock silage tape - it's thick, black, 4 inches wide, and sticks
to anything. Brilliant stuff with many diverse uses (including getting
recalcitrant screw-in spotlight bulbs out of tight ceiling fittings). I've
even used it for its intended purpose, which is covering holes in silage /
haylage bale wrapping to keep the air out!
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]On
Behalf Of Anthony Graham
Sent: 15 March 2005 12:53
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] [lights,bulbs]
Christopher,
Excellent write up and good innovation, I would never have thought to use 3
core mains wire. I thought about using fused relays rather than in line
fuses not that it makes any difference. Any baling twine to go with the
tape?
Anthony
 
Jon C
You may find that the improvement is minimal with up higher wattage bulbs
because of the high resistance of the wiring harness. Also for any increase
in wattage for the bulb then even with a wiring improvement you can only
expect moderate amount of increased lighting I think it is a square root so
increase by say 100 in watts will only give a ten fold increase in light out
put.
Anthony
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of john byrne
Sent: 15 March 2005 12:58
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] [lights,bulbs]
Hi Guys
Here I am again going on about the bulbs . I have been to the Auto
Electrician and his point of view seems to be that it could be time
consuming to replace the wiring harness to the front lights and he
questioned if there would be a noticable difference. He thinks that the
power lose from the wiring given the lenght it has to travel could be small
and not justify replacing the wiring at all. Instead he sold me two 100/80
watt H4 bulbs and said they WILL make a difference that I will notice. He
uses them for his vehicle all the time, and at 10 euro for the pair what the
hell ill give them a try. He did say however that because of the extra
strenght of the bulbs that they will burn the connector after a while say in
two or three years time. He also said that if and when the connector burns
out it is a gradual thing and will not leave me with no lights all of a
sudden. The connectors he said are cheap and easy to replace. What do you
guys think of this idea.
He will be wiring the reversing spots up for me next monday and when asked
for a price he said it could be 100 euro, he said that the labour is now 50
euro an hour and the bits he will use aswell. He also told me that it is
always better to get these things done by somebody who knows what they are
doing so you dont have any shorts or fires. I agree with him cause you would
not get a punture repair man to take apart your engine. I think its always
fine if one can do these mods, but when you hear you have to pay a guy to
fit or do something it always brings good ideas back to reality. I also
checked with the test center and they confirmed that the reversing spots are
no problem for the test and are legal once they are fitted properly.
Christopher thanks for the specs but they are a bit above my head, I would
be too nervious doing anything like that with my cruiser myself. I come up
with the ideas but sadly need other people to do the work. Sadly I do not
have a background in these matters but still learning the theory from you
guys so thanks. I think its another matter to try and do something and have
a high chance of messing it up and the sad part would be I would'nt even
know how I messed it up to begin with. So I think best left to the experts
or at least someone who knows what is what.
John C
92HDj 80 1HD-T Ireland
 
Christopher
I can't comment on "vapour getting deposited through not being hot
enough" as this is like rocket science to me, but the established No 1
reason for burning out bulbs, especially halogen bulbs, is the high
inrush current. The more often you switch them on and off, the more
you shorten the bulb's life. There's a simple MOSFET circuit that will
limit inrush current (
http://www.zen59375.zen.co.uk/public/halogenbulbprotection.pdf )
Another general rule, the more wattage the more the bulb filament is
exposed to failure through vibration.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:38:25 -0000, Christopher Bell
<[Email address removed]> wrote:
 
Anthony

I too considered an old bulb base, but rejected it for the same reasons.
You probably can buy male plugs, but I couldn't find one. I had one
dead relay lying in my spares box, and another cheapo one from the car
parts shop was sacrificed to make a pair. You could visit a scrap yard
& just yank out the first two relays with the correct prongs that you
find.

Regarding the correct battery - assuming that yours is a twin battery
12/24 system like mine - this is crucial! Your right hand battery (as
viewed from the driver's seat looking forward) should be the one to use.
The left hand one should have shrouded terminals & warnings against
using it for jump starting.

You can check this easily enough: the -ve terminal of the RHS battery
should connect directly to the chassis (meaning that its +ve terminal is
always +12v relative to the chassis); whereas both terminals of the LHS
battery should have thick cables going to the starter relay/changeover
switch at the front left hand side of the engine. (Big round thing with
4 terminals on the top & lots of thick wires coming out of it.)

If you want to be really, really sure you will need a voltmeter and an
assistant. Attach the -ve side of the voltmeter to the chassis, and the
+ve side to the +ve terminal of what you think is the correct battery.
It will read 12v. Then get your assistant to turn the starter. If you
have the right battery it will drop briefly to 10 or 11v; if you have
the wrong one it will rise to 20 - 22v. (Make sure the wires & your
hands are clear of the fan when you do this.)


You could mount the circuitry on the back of the battery box - I've seen
this done a fair bit and, being plastic, it is easy to attach to. I
rather liked my 99p solution though, and it's definitely neater & more
protected. I'll try to get my daughter to lend me her digital camera to
take a picture, although there is not much to see.

Christopher Bell

.
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Anthony Graham
Sent: 15 March 2005 14:17
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] [lights,bulbs]
Christopher,
You used a disgorged relay for the mail terminal to go into the H4
socket, I thought of using a blown H4 bulb but was not happy with that
thought as it may be awkward to pull it apart I have a Auto wiring
catalogue but can not find a suitable male H4 plug. I had thought of
mounting the relays to the back of the battery box. The next question
is which is the correct battery to take the supply from? I suspect it
is the one on the driver's side. I have to agree totally with you
comments especially concerning dip beam. Living in the country and
driving on narrow dark and often wet roads makes for difficult night
time viewing especially with on coming traffic. I do have a solution
and will reveal all some time late as I have a few other things to
attend to as well.
Anthony
 
Message Hi Guys
That was a good debate on the bulbs etc, and I have to say thanks a lot for all your ideas and time. But now I think its really a case of getting an over load of information that is a little different to each other, or is it just me who is a little bit confused. Go on I know you lot are going to say its just me and every thing makes sense to every one else. If I put in higher wattage bulbs they will burn out sooner and burn out either the present wiring and may not be any better because of the resistance of the wiring in the first place. If I change the wiring and leave the bulbs as is, the difference could be better or it may make no difference at all. If I change the wiring and fit highter wattage bulbs that might work but the bulbs will burn out quicker. If I clean all the contacts this may work but I dont know what is what, If I replace the wiring I will be fleeced by some guy and may not see any real difference.If I stop now maybe this stress headache might go away once I dont think about Bulbs and Wiring yes that just might work better than any thing else. Am I sorry I brought this up.
Thanks guys for all your input
John c
92HDJ 80 1HD-T Ireland
 
Thank you Roman,
I have that one they are quite comprehensive but do not appear to have a
male H4.
Anthony
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Roman
Sent: 15 March 2005 15:57
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] [lights,bulbs]
Hi all,
You can get all sorts of vehicle electrical goodies from:
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/
Rgds,
Roman UK
'92 HDJ80
 
Christopher,
Thank you for the information concerning the twin batteries as I do not even
have a Hand Book never mind a FSM though I do have one of those CD things
which are really for the petrol US versions I assume. I had an augment with
a mechanic who jump started my vehicle after they had run the batteries down
after working on it he jump started it from the LHS battery and would not
accept that there could be a problem with this. Still no damage so it was
OK.
Anthony
_____
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Christopher Bell
Sent: 15 March 2005 15:29
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] [lights,bulbs]
Anthony
I too considered an old bulb base, but rejected it for the same reasons. You
probably can buy male plugs, but I couldn't find one. I had one dead relay
lying in my spares box, and another cheapo one from the car parts shop was
sacrificed to make a pair. You could visit a scrap yard & just yank out the
first two relays with the correct prongs that you find.
Regarding the correct battery - assuming that yours is a twin battery 12/24
system like mine - this is crucial! Your right hand battery (as viewed from
the driver's seat looking forward) should be the one to use. The left hand
one should have shrouded terminals & warnings against using it for jump
starting.
You can check this easily enough: the -ve terminal of the RHS battery should
connect directly to the chassis (meaning that its +ve terminal is always
+12v relative to the chassis); whereas both terminals of the LHS battery
should have thick cables going to the starter relay/changeover switch at the
front left hand side of the engine. (Big round thing with 4 terminals on the
top & lots of thick wires coming out of it.)
If you want to be really, really sure you will need a voltmeter and an
assistant. Attach the -ve side of the voltmeter to the chassis, and the +ve
side to the +ve terminal of what you think is the correct battery. It will
read 12v. Then get your assistant to turn the starter. If you have the
right battery it will drop briefly to 10 or 11v; if you have the wrong one
it will rise to 20 - 22v. (Make sure the wires & your hands are clear of
the fan when you do this.)
You could mount the circuitry on the back of the battery box - I've seen
this done a fair bit and, being plastic, it is easy to attach to. I rather
liked my 99p solution though, and it's definitely neater & more protected.
I'll try to get my daughter to lend me her digital camera to take a picture,
although there is not much to see.
Christopher Bell
.
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]On
Behalf Of Anthony Graham
Sent: 15 March 2005 14:17
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] [lights,bulbs]
Christopher,
You used a disgorged relay for the mail terminal to go into the H4 socket, I
thought of using a blown H4 bulb but was not happy with that thought as it
may be awkward to pull it apart I have a Auto wiring catalogue but can not
find a suitable male H4 plug. I had thought of mounting the relays to the
back of the battery box. The next question is which is the correct battery
to take the supply from? I suspect it is the one on the driver's side. I
have to agree totally with you comments especially concerning dip beam.
Living in the country and driving on narrow dark and often wet roads makes
for difficult night time viewing especially with on coming traffic. I do
have a solution and will reveal all some time late as I have a few other
things to attend to as well.
Anthony
 
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:26:10 -0000, Anthony Graham
<[Email address removed]> wrote:
Anthony,
I've lost track why you need to simulate a bulb using a H4 connector,
but if it's for connecting a relay, WVP have relay sockets specially
designed for that purpose.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
 
My 100w/90w bulbs last about 10 months, whereas I'd expect to get 2 to 3
years out of normal ones. I'm happy to take that shorter lifetime in
exchange for the brighter output.
Christopher Bell
Hi there Christopher
Do you have the standard wiring or did you change it.
John c
92HDJ 80 1HD-T Ireland
 
Roman,
I can do with out the mail terminals that simulate H4 bulbs terminals by
using spade end terminals to force into the female H4 connector but prefer a
made to measure as it where connector; this is to pick up the signal that
operates the relays for the replacement wiring harness. I could also use
snap connectors but I do not like these and only use them occasionally. The
relay connectors that you refer to are I believe female to correspond with
the relays terminals. Basically I want things with spikes and not holes. I
shall have another look at there online catalogue but I had a look a week
ago and saw nothing.
Regards
Anthony
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Roman
Sent: 15 March 2005 18:41
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] [lights,bulbs]
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:26:10 -0000, Anthony Graham
<[Email address removed]> wrote:
Anthony,
I've lost track why you need to simulate a bulb using a H4 connector,
but if it's for connecting a relay, WVP have relay sockets specially
designed for that purpose.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80
 
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