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Member converts to Bio-diesel

Graham said:
Great to hear Karl,
Is the viscosity almost the same as bought diesel from the pumps?

Gra.
Click to expand...

Viscosity will be slightly higher: apprx 40 deg C derv will be 4 CSt bio will be 6 and veg oil will be upwards of 40.
 
Second batch done apart from centrifuge and polish. Half 4 finish this morning. I can chill and do it in my own time now.

Trucks running great. Starts the same as derv. Makes a change it starting ok as im used to them chugging from start up when running on cooking oil.

Had a couple of minor hic-ups on the second batch. Mainly because of nerves. The third batch i am aiming to do start to finish with no phone calls,texts or emails to anyone.

Fingers crossed:icon-biggrin:
 
Hi mate

You've got the hang of it I'm sure. The machine still could use a few mods, not to mention automation. Maybe get a PID on and fit a venturi valve to pull in methox a bit easier (they can be a bit fiddly to fit - they have to be matched to the pump's flow and fitted at the right height).

Maybe eliminate the drum filter, but using a flat bottom drum with a heater in it. Just pour in dirty oil and pick up into the processor with a self-priming pump with a foot valve and a basket strainer on the end.

Anyway overall how easy do you find the process?
 
Btw for anyone building a processor at the mo, here are some pics for a spray bar ring (used to dry bio after water washing or to dewater feedstock). It still needs to be drilled - about 50 - 60 1.5mm holes.



IMG_2442_zps66508ead.jpg



IMG_2445_zps0e287ef7.jpg



IMG_2444_zps79033170.jpg



IMG_2443_zps67342714.jpg
 
Hi Nathan

Getting the meth in second time was ok. I just had a panic attack first time after turning the wrong tap :doh:and :oops:

The process in its self is simple. As mentioned before if i can manage it anyone could !

Im going to look into some timers. At the moment with outside being could the oil takes some time to get to temp.So,if i know ill be getting to the yard at 5pm i could get the timer to turn the heater on at say 2.30pm to give it time to heat up.Then do the small amount of work that needs to be done and leave the timer to run for say 30min. Walk away and repeat the process following morning or night.

Ps. That spray bar looks spot on for the Job nathan. Dewater tank and the wash tank.
 
If you could set an PID up, I'll send you one up. You want me to send a spray bar for dewatering as well?
 
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Excuse my thickness mate but whats a PID?

As for the spray bar. Once you have decided what way your going with your kit we will go from there.

Id like to start buying things bit by bit really so it doesnt Hit so hard. Brought some scales today as the ones i borrowed kept coming up with error. Dont know if its because of how cold it is.

Could you sort a price for drop out test tube and some glass measuring seringes ( spelling ) :oops: Im getting some plasic ones but i expect they are no good.

Looking at finding something to mix the meth in.
 
PID is a type of control loop that can be tuned very easily (more easily than a PI) normally used for continuous processes that have feedback. Tbh, I don't think you need a PI or PID controller as this is a batch process rather than a continuous one
 
majic79 said:
PID is a type of control loop that can be tuned very easily (more easily than a PI) normally used for continuous processes that have feedback. Tbh, I don't think you need a PI or PID controller as this is a batch process rather than a continuous one
Click to expand...
.
Exactly, no need at all for PID control.
There would be no advantage that I can see.
Perhaps you are thinking along the lines of a simple PLC control, with just a few I/O and timer ability?
Like an old Toshiba, Mitsubishi, or Alan Bradley, with simple ladder logic.

Like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mitsubish...ial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item4abfb09897

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALLEN-BRA...t=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item4d07f3a956

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mitsubish...ial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item337eab42f6


Gra.
 
Last edited:
Graham said:
.
Exactly, no need at all for PID control.
There would be no advantage that I can see.
Perhaps you are thinking along the lines of a simple PLC control, with just a few I/O and timer ability?
Like an old Toshiba, Mitsubishi, or Alan Bradley, with simple ladder logic.

Like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mitsubish...ial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item4abfb09897

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALLEN-BRA...t=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item4d07f3a956

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mitsubish...ial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item337eab42f6


Gra.
Click to expand...

My knowledge kind of peters out here... Maybe we can collaborate on this (favour for favour basis).

Basically if we can program stuff to switch on and off (like the pump) at different temps and turn off at specific temps that would be cool. As you could start any part of the process and then get on with your life and go back another time / day.

Is there a preference for which PLC? I've put the two UK ones on watch (if anyone else is bidding pls let me know).
 
Last edited:
karl webster said:
Excuse my thickness mate but whats a PID?

As for the spray bar. Once you have decided what way your going with your kit we will go from there.

Id like to start buying things bit by bit really so it doesnt Hit so hard. Brought some scales today as the ones i borrowed kept coming up with error. Dont know if its because of how cold it is.

Could you sort a price for drop out test tube and some glass measuring seringes ( spelling ) :oops: Im getting some plasic ones but i expect they are no good.

Looking at finding something to mix the meth in.
Click to expand...

Firstly mate, your spelling can't be any worst than mine!

Ref the kit, I'm seeing some light at the end of the tunnel. A guy that I know (classic car connection) welds stainless, reckons he can get vessels and is very dissatisfied with his fuelpod2 wants to collaborate on a couple of processors. So maybe it won't all be making the trip home to Kettering. Anyway as I said, process everything you have as that will give you breathing space which ever way you choose to go. Adding in a SB to the feedstock tank will only improve your process.

REf the meth mix tank, what are the imperfections of the mixing tank I sent you? If I go the route of a new stainless tank, I'll make a new meth mixing tank with an paddle driven by an atexed motor.

Ref the glass centrifuge tube, I do a mates rate of £21 (they're £35 on ebay). But there is a guy who does a cheaper one - it's not as good, doesn't come with a lid and because the lower graduations are in a wedge shape it's harder to judge small amounts of drop out to 0.05ml or 1/2 percents (might not be critical though). and it's only £17 delivered. I'll post his number when I get it.

Ref the syringes, the plastic ones usually have a rubber bung on them, the rubber swells after first use and then you can't use them. So you're right in choosing the glass ones. I'll send you a pack of five up mate (can u txt ur address)
 
nathanrobo said:
My knowledge kind of peters out here... Maybe we can collaborate on this (favour for favour basis).

Basically if we can program stuff to switch on and off (like the pump) at different temps and turn off at specific temps that would be cool. As you could start any part of the process and then get on with your life and go back another time / day.

Is there a preference for which PLC? I've put the two UK ones on watch (if anyone else is bidding pls let me know).
Click to expand...
.
Hi nathanrobo,

All three I have picked out are real "Child's play"
Essentially they can be understood as "sequence eventers"

ie,
When step 1 has been completed, maybe step 1 is the closing of a level switch, to say "I am full" then move to step 2
when step 2 has timed out (for example) settle period? 5 minutes? move to step 3
When step 3 has been switched (by the timer in step 2) , move to step 4

When step 4 is reached, for example, close output contacts 1, which will relay to a heater, for example
When the heater runs, time it for "xx" period, and switch it off, by releasing output 1 when tepmerature is reached.
Conditional, if temperature has not reached "xx" then no pump start
Step 5 could be by an external temperature sensor, "I have reached "XX" temperature.

It's easy.
You can have a lot of fun with it

Gra.
 
Personally, I'd use a PIC processor and develop a simple circuit board for it (done that for a clock for my rally car allowing me to measure speeds, distances and avg speed, as well as keeping an eye on the time down to the second - cost around £30 in parts)

Solenoids and coils need a bit of thought as they have nasty back-emf going on that can easily wreck input boards, motors can do similar things, inputs are pretty easy (digital or analogue - I've done both). Would need some sort of large scale timer (done that - got a working clock design already ;) ) then the rest is pretty simple. As for prototyping boards, I've done that at home with my laser printer, but pro-boards can be done at around £100 for 10 in small batches, or I can scale up and save some more moolah

The tough part is controlling valves - been looking at some linear actuators, they're a nice solution as you can use ball-valves and just connect the actuator to the handles and you've automated a manual process. The problem with valve control is that they are what make everything expensive, I don't think you'll get away with the small orifice solenoid actuated valves. Even the air operated valves aren't cheap (and you'll need to supply air to them, so you need a compressor....) but looking at some of the data sheets for the linear actuators, might be able to get something to open and close a valve for around $110 per actuator.
 
That's cool! I'll get one. If I go ahead and build the stainless jobbie I could weld a plate at chest height (waist height for most :)) ).

Btw I'm been meaning to point folk to bio forums. One of them is dominated by opinionated folk who rather flame than engage in constructive and collaborative dialogue. The result is that few want to post new ideas as certain ones just come along and dis it.

However one really good forum is:

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Vegetable_oil_and_Biodiesel_wiki

The etiquette is read first the principles, then read the forum for answers to questions and post to contribute to development of processes etc.

The other site has become more of a social club
 
I'll reply properly as doing this on my phone.type a long reply out and lost it all.

I found with semi solid last night Nathan. When I heat the processor up to 70c. Add more oil than needed. Last night I transferred hot oil from processor into the de water tank through the filter. Worked a treat.

Ill have a look at the links later off the laptop.
 
Hi mate, I see that contact in Derby worked out... 40p per litre! That shaves £3 off a batch. Happy days:clap:
 
Im still up for a barrel Nathan if poss.

Did he post on the forum that I had been?
 
Here's a very useful bit of kit, used after water washing and drying fuel to ensure that water ppm levels are where you think they are.

http://www.biopowered.co.uk/wiki/Water_in_fuel_-_test_kit The link is for a self build, which would cost you £20. If you wanted to buy one they're $250 plus P&P from the U.S.

In the process you'd dry, test that you are close to spec <500ppm and then push through polish / drying pots if ppms exceed spec. You could also use them to determine when your pots are saturated.
 
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