NCT/MOT fail

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Guest

Guest
Hi Guys
Cruiser went for its NCT test today and failed because of the drivers window
which the tester could not get up after opening it.
I want to work on it today and need a few pointers.
I have taken the trim of the door and pulled apart the contacts between the
switch and the door wiring loom.
Do I need to clean these little nipples on both ends and if so how and with
what.
To clean the rubber I need to use a tooth brush and fairy washing up and
then spray with silicone is that all I need to do.
I'm not into taking any motors apart because knowing me I will end up with
extra bits left over.
Would a new rubber seal fix the issue it cleaning does not.
cheers
john92HDJ 80 1HDT
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John,
Obviously you want the window fixed, sorry I can't help with advise on that
but I wouldn't have thought it should fail the test on a window. I can't
find any thing in the MOT, perhaps it's just in the NCT?
Good luck with it anyway.
Malcolm
Stafford (UK)
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of john
Sent: 16 May 2009 09:29
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: [ELCO] NCT/MOT fail
Hi Guys
Cruiser went for its NCT test today and failed because of the drivers window
which the tester could not get up after opening it.
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Further Info: http://www.landcruisers.info/
 
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I think the NCT in RoI is deliberately tougher to try to force old cars
off the road, is it not?
Christopher Bell
|
| John,
|
| Obviously you want the window fixed, sorry I can't help with advise on
| that
| but I wouldn't have thought it should fail the test on a window. I
can't
| find any thing in the MOT, perhaps it's just in the NCT?
|
| Good luck with it anyway.
|
| Malcolm
| Stafford (UK)
| FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
|
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what's that NCT?
Lubo
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Christopher Bell <
[Email address removed]> wrote:
> I think the NCT in RoI is deliberately tougher to try to force old cars
> off the road, is it not?
>
> Christopher Bell
>
> |
> | John,
> |
> | Obviously you want the window fixed, sorry I can't help with advise on
> | that
> | but I wouldn't have thought it should fail the test on a window. I
> can't
> | find any thing in the MOT, perhaps it's just in the NCT?
> |
> | Good luck with it anyway.
> |
> | Malcolm
> | Stafford (UK)
> | FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
> |
> ____________________________________________________________
> Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
> systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
>
> --
> European Land Cruiser Owners Mailing List
> Further Info: http://www.landcruisers.info/
>
 
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Hi Lubo
NCT =3D National Car Test .It is a test that every private road vehicle must undertake every 2 years.
It is very strict, right down to having the correct size letters and numbers on your vehicles license plate.
The test is designed to help road safety and as Christopher said to get rid of all the heaps of crap of the roads. If your car fails for any reason you must get it fixed within a certain period of time and get it retested. If it passes you will get a disk to put on your windscreen much like a road tax disk.
If the vehicle does not pass and you drive it you will receive 5 penalty points on your driving license and a possible 1500euro fine if you are caught and that could happen if it is parked on any street
I think its a great idea because it has reduced the number of bangers on the roads since it was introduced. A fair amount of accidents are caused by dangerous vehicles on the roads. To test for smoke they rev the engine in at full revs for a few seconds and in a confined space, some sound from the engine.
John92HDJ 80 !hdt
 
G

Guest

Guest
John
I haven't taken my mechanism apart, but no one else has answered your
question, so I'll give it a go.
In my experience cleaning and scrubbing the rubber, plus adding silicone
lubricant, helps a bit although the effect wears off quite rapidly. I'd
have thought that if you did it the day before the NCT test, and added a
bit of lubricant on the day, it should be enough to get through.
The evidence seems to be that new rubber seals are "the answer", but
they are also expensive and a PITA to fit, so I'd have thought that
cleaning and lubricating would be the first thing to try.
However I think the biggest influence on these windows is the ambient
temperature, so choosing a nice sunny day for the retest is probably
your best bet - how are your weather forecasting skills? Also volts
help, so make sure your batteries are well charged up beforehand.
As for electrical contacts: if they are clean and undamaged then leave
them well alone.
If they are just dirty then you want to take the *minimum* action
required to clean them. I normally take a piece of rough cloth (like a
strip cut out of an old cotton shirt or something), with a bit of meths
or acetone on it, and rub it across the contacts.
If that doesn't shift the dirt, or they are pitted/corroded, then you
can progress to *fine* sandpaper. I'd use something like 600 grade, and
use *only* enough force to achieve a good result. I find that "wet and
dry" sandpaper (usually black) is easier to obtain in these finer
grades, you should be able to get it at a hardware store. Clean it up
afterwards, and remove any loose bits of the "sand" with a cloth.
In short, remember that the contacts are soft material and that their
shape is important, so you don't want to remove any more material than
necessary. Your goal is to achieve a well-shaped and clean contact
area.
Christopher Bell
| Hi Guys
| Cruiser went for its NCT test today and failed because of the drivers
| window
| which the tester could not get up after opening it.
| I want to work on it today and need a few pointers.
| I have taken the trim of the door and pulled apart the contacts
between
| the
| switch and the door wiring loom.
| Do I need to clean these little nipples on both ends and if so how and
| with
| what.
| To clean the rubber I need to use a tooth brush and fairy washing up
and
| then spray with silicone is that all I need to do.
| I'm not into taking any motors apart because knowing me I will end up
with
| extra bits left over.
| Would a new rubber seal fix the issue it cleaning does not.
| cheers
____________________________________________________________
Electronic mail messages entering and leaving Arup business
systems are scanned for acceptability of content and viruses
--
European Land Cruiser Owners Mailing List
Further Info: http://www.landcruisers.info/
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hey Christopher
Thanks for the reply. I had fun taking things apart in between heavy showers
of rain.
I did clean the rubbers with hot water and fairy with a tooth brush.
Not really much dirt in the rubbers.
I then greased the lower and upper tracks and sprayed silicone down the
rubbers.
Its working a bit faster and at least going up now, but I'm waiting for the
retest for it to stop working again (my luck).
I also greased the rod with teeth on it which I presume the motor is
attached to, it had a small groove on the surface of it where again I
presume the motor works to pull or push.
Maybe Imp talking through my hat again as I really don't know.
But the more I used the window the hotter the motor box became if it was
indeed the motor..
I also went to my pals Toyota to see about getting new brake pipes, the ones
the NCT testers said needed replacing and guess what they showed me a
drawing of the entire rear brake system and asked me to pick out the part.
They did not have the time to look them selves and I don't know, so its the
usual crap having to go back again when they can give me five minutes to
look. Just another few things I am interested in knowing if someone can
explain.
Smoke at 1.66/m when the allowance for a turbo is 3.0/m, what does M stand
for.
Side slip alignment and a fail is 3m/km and a fail is -18 or + 18(m/KM).
suspension test 7% imbalance and a fail is 30%
cheers
john92HDJ 80 m1HDT
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Further Info: http://www.landcruisers.info/
 
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Hi John,
OK, one more thing to do on the window, open up the switch control from
the drivers door, do it on the kitchen table and be prepared for some
small springs and contact to be in there - best to undo the last screws
with the buttons facing upwards - this should hopefully prevent the
springs falling out.
Use a fine bit of emery cloth/sand paper - maybe borrow the wife's nail
file :) to clean all the little contacts, particularly the ones in the
middle of the switch block, which are the ones that operate the drivers
side window - these are slighly different from the normal rocker
contacts that you see.
If you see where the switch operates a plunger back and forth (in the
middle of the switch block) you can see a the contacts on the end of a
couple of long springs - the chances are there will be a lot of black
marks around the contacts where the electricity has been arcing across
the connection - you should be able to slide some emery cloth/emery
board between these contact to clean up the contacts.
All that should make quite a difference to the windows.
As for the brake pipes, if it is corrosion on a metal pipe, a local
garage should be able to take it off and then make up a replacement for
you for not much money - it will certainly be cheaper than a factory
bought one.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
0845 508 6863
Ledbury, Herefordshire. UK
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift and a few goodies.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Julian
Found a mechanic who makes brake pipes which cuts out the expense of Toyota
and he replaced then all in copper.
Thanks for the info I just want to find out a little more if you don't mind.
First of all it seems to me that the motor in the door is crap at what it
does, like as if its not strong enough to do the job that it was intended to
do in the first place.
Even after cleaning and putting Silicone on the rubbers and greasing the
runners, the window still does not go up when its down only when the
weather is warmish or it feels like it.
The motor and regulator are only a few years old.
I think I know the window motor is tucked away and gets warm when used but
what is the other box that is in the door.
Can a stronger motor be bought for this window, I'm not confident in taking
the window switch apart as you suggest just in case something goes wrong and
then I'm left in bigger hassle.
cheers
john92hdj80 1hdt
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Further Info: http://www.landcruisers.info/
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi John
I also have heard that about the window motor and as long as I know it could
be replaced with stronger one!Unfortunately that's all I know.Good luck with
the hunting for the right one...and don't forget to post it here,eyh
cheers
Lubo
On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 10:53 PM, john <[Email address removed]> wrote:
> Hi Julian
> Found a mechanic who makes brake pipes which cuts out the expense of Toyota
> and he replaced then all in copper.
> Thanks for the info I just want to find out a little more if you don't
> mind.
> First of all it seems to me that the motor in the door is crap at what it
> does, like as if its not strong enough to do the job that it was intended to
> do in the first place.
> Even after cleaning and putting Silicone on the rubbers and greasing the
> runners, the window still does not go up when its down only when the
> weather is warmish or it feels like it.
> The motor and regulator are only a few years old.
> I think I know the window motor is tucked away and gets warm when used but
> what is the other box that is in the door.
> Can a stronger motor be bought for this window, I'm not confident in taking
> the window switch apart as you suggest just in case something goes wrong and
> then I'm left in bigger hassle.
> cheers
> john92hdj80 1hdt
> --
> European Land Cruiser Owners Mailing List
> Further Info: http://www.landcruisers.info/
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
and one more I remembered:the whole el.system was desined week.as I remember
there were recomendations to upgrade it,then all will function well,but here
Julian has to drop a line...
cheers
Lubo
On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Lubomir Kolev <[Email address removed]>wrote:
> Hi John
> I also have heard that about the window motor and as long as I know it
> could be replaced with stronger one!Unfortunately that's all I know.Good
> luck with the hunting for the right one...and don't forget to post it
> here,eyh
> cheers
> Lubo
>
>
> On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 10:53 PM, john <[Email address removed]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Julian
>> Found a mechanic who makes brake pipes which cuts out the expense of
>> Toyota and he replaced then all in copper.
>> Thanks for the info I just want to find out a little more if you don't
>> mind.
>> First of all it seems to me that the motor in the door is crap at what it
>> does, like as if its not strong enough to do the job that it was intended to
>> do in the first place.
>> Even after cleaning and putting Silicone on the rubbers and greasing the
>> runners, the window still does not go up when its down only when the
>> weather is warmish or it feels like it.
>> The motor and regulator are only a few years old.
>> I think I know the window motor is tucked away and gets warm when used
>> but what is the other box that is in the door.
>> Can a stronger motor be bought for this window, I'm not confident in
>> taking the window switch apart as you suggest just in case something goes
>> wrong and then I'm left in bigger hassle.
>> cheers
>> john92hdj80 1hdt
>> --
>> European Land Cruiser Owners Mailing List
>> Further Info: http://www.landcruisers.info/
>>
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Hi Guys
I would like to fix this window issue before we go away and before the new
date for the NCT which is next Thursday. I am afraid to take the drivers
control switch apart because I know it wont go back the way it was.
Its too late to order a new switch from the USA which seems to be the
cheapest I think.
Toyota want my soul for a switch and other places that could work on it have
waiting lists.
The movement of the window has improved with all the other work I did but
now the weather is lovely and warm but maybe on Thursday it will be snowing.
Are the rear windows separately powered on their own switch as well as from
the drivers door switch.
So if the rear window will not work will the rear switch be the issue.
I am again reading contradicting evidence that the original motors are
flawed because they let moisture in which corrodes it, while other bits I
have read say the original motors are best and after market motors are the
worst. The drivers motor works but sounds under pressure and will get quite
warm if used repeatedly is that normal for other 80s. Could the other bits
like the bars that go up and down and the side bars have something to do
with the slow movement. Really clutching at straws at this stage because we
all know how temperamental the windows are.
cheers
john92hdj801hdt
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Further Info: http://www.landcruisers.info/
 
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