newbie here with busted 1hdft -HELP

[crazy harry]

Hi all, been looking here for a while but now I am in need of help.
have a 1995 vx 24v 1hd-ft diesel
16psi
boost guage
3' exhaust
egt
tranny cooler
radios galore (im in Search and Rescue)

recently when towing my jayco (2500kg) over a mother of a hill got black/blue smoke and a bad knocking noise from the IP area. thought id killed the turbo but still had boost, as soon as I backed off gas it got better after about 30 seconds and we were away again. after leaving a little brown stain in a certain place I thought ??? what could that be. it did it 5 more times getting there. Fuel starvation ?? I cleaned all the lines, filters and took unloaded over the same hill at full throttle. with no problems.

Ahh I though dirty fuel. so we hooked on caravan and went for another to. Then under 3/4 throttle under incline load tick tick tick, bang bang bang and black, then blue smoke. same symptoms as before. I took it to a diesel shop they said the turbo had been boosted from the waste gate to the airbox so could run at max that the turbo could do (which was about 16) we blanked that off and took her for another spin with max boost of 12psi with the same problem under load.

left caravan in Nelson and cruised home to Christchurch very carefully, but this time on inclines and under 4/5 throttle will do the same tick tick tick, bang bang bang and black, then blue smoke. same symptoms as before.

Took her today to a local diesel specialist who said she was running rough at 900rpm and breathing hard with a lot of oil. possible cause a ring scratch or busted block. I thought these were tough dogs, has anyone heard of a block crack or possible causes to this sort of problem. been quoted 6k for a basic or 13k for a new block and rebuild. ahhhhhhhh

Any help is good help.

 

[Towpack]

The noises you describe and the smoke can be caused by incorrect injection timing. Is the pump timing slipping somehow under load maybe? Burning an excessive amount of oil could also cause similar symptoms but I would have thought that if this was brought about by some mechanical failiure, like block, pistons, rings or bearings etc it would not 'recover' as you have described and drive OK. Does the engine show any sign of running on when it's switched off with the key? I'd be looking to get the IP itself and the timing of it checked first before a major stripdown such as you have described. There's some experienced diesel heads on here so hopefully they'll post up their diagnosis. JMO

 

[Chas]

Exactly what happened to me, the woodruff key in the IP had almost sheared causing IP timing to be drastically affected, Martin at http://www.overland-cruisers.co.uk/ sorted it for me.

 

[crazy harry]

Thanks for the response. the motor starts and shuts down fine every time. I have read about fuel starvation at high loads and high boost and also vacuum tanks. The noise appears to be coming from the LH side of the motor where the IP is and starts of as a banging (like bolts in a old tin can ) then after about 3 seconds goes to a really bad banging(someone shaking the tin of bolts next to your head) I still have full boost but if i keep on the gas i dont know what will happen so as you would, automatically back off. if you back right off then slowly back on gas it will do it again so off the gas for about 3 seconds then slowly back on. (all this time there is mountains of black smoke then when you back off blue and black. I mean like you cant see ANYTHING behind it).

I have stripped out the fuel lines and tank and all looks good. My gut feeling here is there is 2 problems

1) fuel/ip PUMP PROBLEM = Could it be starvation or the boost compensator is just maxed out. Would additional pump work to help, do i need to adjust compensator or can this be modded.
2) Rough Idle around 900rpm, and breathing hard, and oil in breather tubing = Could be ????

The intresting thing is i paid to have a boost controller fitted, injectors cleaned, inlet manifold cleaned, ecu removed. and they have just piped from the wastegae to the air box meaning the turbo will operate until she explodes. is that correct.

Any help would be great. Im learnuing every day on these engines and try to do whatwerer i can myself.

Thanks in advance

 

[crazy harry]

Wow thanks for that im in New Zealand But i might give him a call. ill keep you posted

 

[Chas]

Wow thanks for that im in New Zealand But i might give him a call. ill keep you posted

Glad to be of some help, your problem sounds exactly like mine was.
Martin is one of the mechanics at Overland Cruisers, it is owned by Julian Voelcker who is a member on this forum.

 

[crazy harry]

this is the response i got from Overland Cruisers. Very helpful.

Im going to start with a bubbler to check for air leaks then perhaps fuel pump

Morning Mike,

Reading through your message...

The black smoke is indicative of over fuelling/shortage of air and will be sending the temperatures in the head way above where they should be.

What EGTs have you been getting when the problem occurs?

Did the car smoke at all before the problem started?

Is it burning any oil? I assume it is regularly serviced.

If the car has always smoked under load and you have habitually thrashed it up hills the increased head temperatures may well have caused damage to the pistons, which would tie in with the diesel specialist's thoughts. Under heavy load it may have got to the point where you are getting piston slap with oil getting in to the bores hence even more smoke.

The first thing I would look to do is get the engine compression tested to see what the cylinders are like.

Best wishes,

Julian Voelcker
OVERLAND CRUISERS

 

[crazy harry]

interesting update, I have taken off the Fan to replace the Silicone oil with 10,000cst so whilst I waited for it to arrive truck lay dormant for 4 days. Put it all back together and it would not start. It took 6-8 pumps of primer to get it pressurised. could this assit to the theory that the noise was fuel starvation but as I was driving every day it did not make itself obvious. Does anyone have any ideas or comments about finding/fixinf fuel leaks on 1hdft's up to and including the fuel filter.

 

[adrianr]

Id work through what Julian said mate. He does nothing but cruisers and is usually very accurate, well always in my experience, in his diagnostic method and advice.

Fuel starvation makes sense but the black some is over fuelling. Towpack is right IMO that the timing is moving about. Sounds like Chas had this, and I did too but for different reasons.

Fuel leak - stick a one way check valve in the fuel line before the fuel filter. I've heard The diaphragm in the fuel filter gets pin holes and this lets air in when the truck sits for a while, the one way check valve is a quick, easy and low cost fix.


Also I don't think id keep starting it until I had worked out what was wrong.


check the torque on the nut in the centre of number 2 pulley on the timing belt - this is the one that holds the nose of the shaft on the fuel pump in place and keeps timing accurate.

i had threaded mine when removing the pump (didn't have the right toyota tool to remove the pump and used old faithful the big lump hammer on the end of the nut that damaged the threads). After that despite correct torque the nut worked loose when i was driving causing the timing to go out and run rough and smoke and cough. and a horrible loud clack from the pump which was i surmised the woodruff key moving. has your fuel pump been off at some stage?

felt for sure my truck was dying - all for the sake in the end of a £3 nut, and using a hammer when i should not have.

If the nut is loose don't just tighten it up!

Take the pump off and inspect the woodruff key and the slot it sits in. then rebuild the whole lot and set the timing on the pump properly. this needs a specialist tool but is not a hard job to do yourself.

If the nut was loose i'd replace the nut. also use thread lock on the rebuild so nothing works loose again.

Its not too hard to do it all (unless pump is stuck tight like mine was) just need to take your time and double and triple check everything on the way back out.

Good luck.

 

[Towpack]

Fuel starvation wouldn't cause excessive black smoke. Black smoke is unburnt fuel caused by overfuelling or incorrect timing. The lift pump, the one above the filter with the primer button, is known to get tired with age and to allow fuel to drain back into the tank. The pipes to the tank are easy enough to check for leaks. Some owners have fitted an additional electric pump to assist the lift pump.

 

[crazy harry]

Thanks. Im going to look down the fuel supply lines this week. Im taking to a IP specialist who wants to put a bubler on it to check for leaks. If I can chuck 2-3k at her instead of 14k that solves all my problems and potential divorce. (or perhaps I should go down the 14k line and get 2 rebuilt beasts lol )

interesting though I was a bit late on the oil change getting to about 7k now so did that today with the usual Castrol 15-40 now the shuddering off idle has gone, and excessive smoke ??? I honestly have a gut feeling the block is ok as when I bought her 12 months ago the reading were:

cylinder Leakdown compression
1 92 440
2 94 420
3 92 440
4 94 420
5 92 420
6 92 440

IS it worth getting another one done $300

I do regular checks and monitor temps, oil, etc and have 3" fitted. Just want to make sure this fault is not a combination of perhaps:

1 Late oil check
2 Some bad fuel and or leak in line
3 possible effect on ip pump (which if im correct are a known weak point in these)
All brought on by towing 3ton camper up a very steep range (about 30km of 20' aprox)

Does anyone know of any problems fitting an additional inline pump next to the fuel tank: this is hat I was thinking powered of the 12v aux line. Is there any risk of over pressure with this arrangment



Fuel Pump Specs:
Minimum Current: 12 Volts
Operating Pressure: 72.5 PSI (5 Bar)
Minimum Flow @ Outlet: 80 GPH (300 LPH)
Dimensions: 196mm Length x 60mm Diameter
Weight: 1030 Grams (2.27 Pounds)

Fuel Pump Connections:
Inlet: M18 x 1.5
Outlet: M12 x 1.5
Electrical: Positive M6 / Negative M5

 

[Towpack]

I haven't fitted one myself but I would say that 72psi is way too high. All the pump has to do is supply a positive feed, maybe just a few PSI?, to the IP via the lift pump/filter unit. I'm sure I've read on here of someone fitting one but can't remember who. Maybe they can post up some first hand experience if they read the thread.

 

[adrianr]

Was Chris who fitted pusher pump IIRC.

 

[adrianr]

http://www.landcruiserclub.net/foru...albro-pusher-pump?highlight=pusher+pump+chris

 

[crazy harry]

Thanks for you help everyone. heres where we are at.

1) fitted bubler to line and located considerable air leaks.

2) Cut all ends and re terminated all fitting with a couple of suspects and with good quality hose clips

3) re ran with bubler fitted with a small amount of bubble coming through.
4) Now fitting 132LPH 4-6PSI pusher pump in engine well
5) Also did Viscous fan with 10,000cst but i might of mucked up there as it was just running free so added some 100CST using http://widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html
I might of gone a bit the other way as she is like a helecoptor on its side. I will re look at this when i get back from towing caravan as its heavy and lots of big steep long hills. I would rather have it cool , and yes it is robbing power but i can live with that until im back. Also replaced stupid screws with cap screws. Can anyone tell me the correct volume of silicone and CST rating that should be used for 3ton heavy towing on hot days

6) Checking radiator and flow tonight but in 99% confident thats all good

Now the big trip back to pick up the jayco. and back over the ranges. kinda happy but not sure what else i can do.

 

[adrianr]

How have you got on with the over fuelling issue / pump timing mate?

As I understand things: Over fuelling could be lethal to your engine, underfuelling in a diesel just affects the performance but won't really harm it.

 

[crazy harry]

Ok thanks all for your help. Made the big hall up to nelson picked up caravan with no problem on the way there. Coming back on the first hill (its a very nasty long hill with hair pin bends that get steeper on the bends) and goes for about 20km. tempature sat perfect, 2600 rpm 15lb boost oil stable, no problems foot on 2/3 gas. just purred all they way up but i was feeling very nervous. 2nd hill the same but went for 4/5 throttle on the second hill and she was gaining speed and pulling away so backed off. no need to un necessary put load on it as 50kph is plenty fast enough on nasty hills.

so all up about $500 compared with quoted $15000. funny thing is they wouldnt of found the fault as is wasent on the block and they were not replacing fan.

So im going to leave the viscous fan running like a helicopter as whole engine bay was about 20'c cooler even if its robbing power. Will also move pump to next to the fuel tank. We ended stopping on top of where the NZ alpine fault joins for the night just for a relax and to show all those who live on flat land what our hills are like. these are about 1/3 of the main range you have to cross 3 times. Only other thing to do is the legendary oil pressure sender, or is it the gauge. what is the common consesus. sender or guage and is there a good post that someone can refer me to.

 

[adrianr]

Oil pressure guage

 

[Towpack]

Leaving the fan running 'permanently' is a good call IMO. Yes, in theory, it may rob some power but on a big engine like the 1H it will be barely noticeable, the biggest issue being increased warm up time from cold starts in cold weather/climates. The OE OP sender can be opened up (carefully) and adjusted but you really need an external calibrated gauge to see what the true OP is.

 

[crazy harry]

Is there any after market gauges that will fit into the exsisting console as currently the truck is starting to look like a 747 (i also have a lot of search and rescue stuff crowding dash at the same time)