Oil seal problem? Looking for second opinion..

[Matt Wright]

Hi all
Mary Christmas etc.. I rebuilt the front axle a couple months ago under the stewardship of Chris and it was in purrrfect condition. The truck then did a few hundred road miles and then spent 2 months locked inside a container. I noticed yesterday that there is a lot / blobs of cv grease all over the cannon balls. Not a good sign as on closer inspection, there is also clear oil - diff oil..?

Given how recently I did the rebuild, and replaced pretty much all parts including the seals, it's odd that there's a problem already with no offroading. MY guess is that the oil seal has gone and the oil is mixing? Second opinion gratefully received (as it's a big job to do now with so many others on the list already!)

What's worrying me is that there is quite a vibration in the steering which I haven't gotten to the bottom of yet. It's more of a wobble than a vibration actually. Let me start with this though..
Thanks!

 

[Chris]

Mate that isn't good. I can't remember what we did during the rebuild but I'd guess that we did inner oil seals. I'd also guess they were Mr T too. Even if the seal has failed I'm surprised to see that much grease coming out of the swivel. Oil fair enough, but grease in that quantity?

Grease being there on its own is not really a problem. We did pack the outside of the cannon ball with grease before we built it up.

What you don't want is grease in the diff!!!!!

Chris

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

The two problems (leaky balls and vibration) could be related. Have you jacked it up and given the wheel a wobble looking for either wheel bearing or swivel bearing play? Also check it on the ground, have someone work the steering back and forth while you watch for delayed reactions e.g. arm on bottom of swivel loose. If it all seems tight then you'll have to open it up and see what's going on in there. You might just have a duff seal, bad ridge on the shaft where the seal rides etc and been like it all along as it takes a short while for the oil to find its way out.

 

[Gary Stockton]

And if you haven't got the time for a DIY assessment, when you go to Hein Burnett, go via Johann Meyer (the Cruiser Whisperer) at JBs Auto - highly recommended independent Cruiser specialist.

And merry Christmas to you guys!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Matt Wright]

Thanks guys, I'll try the easy trouble shooting tomorrow and then open all the way up to see. I've got a full rebuilt kit from the big trip..

I'm hoping the wobble is related - kill 2 birds.. Not pretty tho hey Chris cause we did a full job, replaced all parts incl the oil seals with Toyota seals.

I've been put in touch with the legendary whisperer Gary I'm taking both in to get a stake in the ground / status report on both trucks. I'll do everything from there if possible, letting him handle any big stuff...

Time to double glove up!

 

[Matt Wright]

Today's menu has "CV grease and diff oil" as the soup of the day.
Holy moly, its liquid in there!!

Took everything apart this evening and by the time I had everything off, there wasn't really any grease stuck in the cv. It's almost like it all melted and turned to oil, as in something with the consistency of cold cooking oil!?

Soon as I pulled the hub off, it started gushing out. Once the (big part that fits on to the cannon ball and houses the cv) was off, the rest blabbed on to the floor.

I checked for play in the wheel and it felt really good Jon. No play, nice and solid.
What was also a bit off is that the wheel nuts weren't right at all, I got them off with almost no effort. The whole job was a synch really - like the cv goo had filtered through the entire wheel?

The oil seal feels perfect. No rips or tears. It's flexible and is securely in its place.
There looks to be cv grease on the wrong side of the seal tho
Does that mean draining all the diff oil and blowing it clean (like we did Chris?)

Pictures aren't great but I'll look in the light tomorrow. It was dark by the time I finished..

Given that it was all runny, and that this axle was rebuilt just a 1000 miles ago, could it be that something is out of alignment and causing friction which causes heat? It's always had this humming sound in the front area but I have up and went with it being tyre noise..

Stumped. It would be easy if there was a problem.. Problems can be fixed..


This shows how much cv grease was on the outer parts


No damage to speak of..


That's what the cv looks like. Note the shine - diff oil..


Half shaft looks fine..


Oil seal is fine. Needs more cleaning of course


Oil inside looks dark...



Better pics tomorrow..

 

[Ben]

That inner oil seal has definitely failed Matt.

I'd say clean everything up and get a new genuine seal.

Make sure you give the new seal a smear of grease and then gently and squarely tap it in.

I'm sure thats exactly what you and Chris did last time, and if so I cant see why it would fail.

Had it been a milners seal I could understand it. I fitted one on mine and it failed instantly.

 

[joinerman]

That half shaft looks to have a groove round it right where it sits in the outer seal

 

[Matt Wright]

That half shaft looks to have a groove round it right where it sits in the outer seal

I think you may be on to something Joinerman - I'm not sure what it's supposed to look like - is this correct or?

Ben, we fitted new genuine Toyota seals last time so I don't think it's the actual seal failing as much as it't maybe not seated correctly or it is but the shaft is moving around and letting the oil and grease mix? Maybe this is where the hum comes from...? I know it's a long shot but something has to be causing it.
I'm worried that if I just fit a new seal, it'll do the same thing in another 1000miles..

Ideally I find something actually wrong/broken so I know I actually did something.. I'll post better pics in the light close up. It might help.. Thanks as always guys and WELL DONE ON GETTING YOUR AUSSIE STUFF SORTED BEN!!!

 

[Paul]

The groove on the shaft needs more looking at i think, is it sitting in line with the seal? Although doesnt look bad enough to cause that level of contamination is such a short time, i'm sure you checked it but is the breather ok?

I thought this would be a problem on my recent rebuild due to the high kms (400,000) but the shaft is fine, only leaked after the first time i engaged the hubs, a local engineering place does make "seal savers" i can ask if you need some. My failure turned out to be the spindle bushes as they were completely knackered and not sure if this also cured the wheel wobble as changed so much other stuff at the same time.

 

[joinerman]

The halfshaft should be smooth all the way along like it is on the left side of it, it's not sealing the outer seal & allowing the grease to push in & pass the inner seal.

 

[Chris]

I don't think that the shaft looks that bad. Not on an 80. But as I have already said Matt, seat the seal out a little more this time to miss that section. Seriously all that seal does is stop oil splashing from one side to the other. Matt, I think that this might be more synonymous with a blocked breather and increase temperatures over there in SA. If the temp in the axle casing has gone up it could well be forcing the oil through. I have had shafts worn way worse than that and they haven't leaked. When the shaft spins, it's very unlikely to spin perfectly centrally. That is why the seal is so flexible, it follows the shaft through its eccentric orbit.

The level of oil in the diff barely reaches the axle 'arms' when you fill it up. Look where the filler hole is. That amount of oil has to have some force of some description behind it to push it through a seal, or it would just ran back into the diff pan.

Chris

 

[Matt Wright]

Just checked and the breather is blocked up. Rust. Looks like its the culprit. I couldn't blow through the pipe without the top end cap off.. It oozing a few drops of watery-oil since I took it off and cleaned it up. Cut a bit off both ends to neaten the connection and will get new tips for the top end - they're not OEM. The rear is missing the end part completely



Guess I better check the other side to make sure it's not halfway gone too.

Thanks all for your help. I'll report back any issues when it's all back together again.
Let the cleaning begin..

 

[warrenpfo]

It must be so nice working on your truck in the warms of the sun.

The weather here is just horrid at the moment and has stopped all work I had planned over the christmas break.

 

[Matt Wright]

Lol, yes. Quite different. Last time I did proper work I was wearing all the clothes I owned! 2 t-shirts, jersey and a ski jacket under overalls! Chris of course was in shorts and t-shirt

Bit windy now and don't want to get any dirt in the parts so going out to take the silver truck for a drive

 

[Paul]

Might be worth taking the chance to extend the pipes while you are there.

 

[Matt Wright]

Good thinking Paul. They're already extended tho just rusted

I decided to drain the diff oil to see how much mixing had taken place. See below!

It's a new BLACK kinda diff oil!?


Anyone know how many litres it takes off hand? I think its around 3 litres?

More importantly, how does one clean out the diff? Blow air in? Anything better? How serious is it if there's still some leftover cv grease mix? Will it work its way out with each oil change?

Everything's nice and clean and ready to put back. Going to replace the oil seal for good measure as I have spares from the big trip..

Check out my fancy work area..

 

[Towpack]

2.6 litres with DL, 2.8 litres without DL. When I did my front hubs for the same problem I just refilled with some cheap diff oil of the right spec, did around 100 miles then changed it again. Did this for 3 changes by which time it was coming out clean so refilled with the stuff I normally use. There's likely to be more oil in the hubs than there is grease in the diffs IMO. Can't honestly see blowing air through (from where?) doing anything.

 

[Chris]

I agree. Fill up with something, give it a sloosh and drain. When it's nice and warm, Jack one side then the other to let any oil drain out of the arms. Blocked breather eh? That's the begger. Bit surprised we didn't get that sorted Matt. But then we were up against the clock as always and naturally, I took it for granted that you knew what you were doing.




Yes, M'lud, the case for the defence rests.

Chris

 

[Matt Wright]

Ha ha, we did more that weekend than I did in 10 months preparing for Africa!