Possible Clutch & G/box problems.

[Olazz]

Last year when my truck was at JV's, the gearbox came out to do the clutch.
I have a 12v 80' however when the clutch came out, it was obvious that my truck it is running a G/box from a 24v as the 12v clutch was clearly the wrong one.

Couldn't get a 24v replacement in time so JV replaced the spigot and thrust bearing only and put the old clutch back. IRRC the original clutch wasn't badly worn. The truck has ever since the replacement suffered with terrible smell of g/box oil.... That thick, sickly, Sulphurous smell of crude. Nothing seems to have cured the smell and I cannot find whats causing it.

About 1,000km later whilst in Portgual, the truck developed a rattling noise when in neutral and foot removed from the clutch. This is particularly evident when engine and box are warm.
At fist I though this may be the thrust bearing, but if the clutch is depressed the noise goes away, so cant be. I've had no issues with gears or the clutch.

Well today, I took truck out for a proper drive, first time in a loooong time, and when stopped the rattling became quite alarming and very very loud. Even SWAMBO asked whats wrong with the truck, indeed it does sounds like something is very wrong!!

If clutch is depressed then there is no rattling. There is no rattling when driving in any gear and no noticeable difference between 4th and 5th; so don't think its lay shaft bearings.

The smell of g/box oil is still very apparent and no apparent leaks anywhere.

Can anyone suggest any possible cause? Any ideas?

 

[Olazz]

Perhaps I should clarify the question.

Forgetting the smell of g/box oil, the rattle appears when stationary and the truck in neutral. That's the issue.
The rattle disappears when clutch is depressed.

This can't be thrust bearing as that would rattle when clutch is depressed no?

 

[Lorin]

I have exactly the same noise/rattle. Mine is a 12v with a 24v gearbox. I recently had the clutch replaced and have had the noise ever since although the noise on mine is intermitent, appearing about 50% of the time. When in neutral I can hear it, though not as bad as yours. Depress the clutch and it goes away. It is definitely worse once the truck is warmed up.

I would also be interested to hear of anyone has any ideas

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

It's a long time since I had a manual anything but I thought the conditions you describe are what happens when the thrust bearing or some part of that mechanism that disengages the clutch has some play in it and not having any load on it (foot off clutch) it can rattle about but putting your foot on the clutch loads it up and quietens it down?

 

[adrianr]

I agree with Jon on thrust bearing. I have had many manual cars do that.
My 12v manual with 12v gearbox does have a small rattle, mine rattles most when cold (presume as things heat up tolerances close up as things expand?) Goes quiet when you press the clutch and the bearing gets loaded up.

Isn't there a way of squirting some white grease or similar into the thrust bearing through the inspection plate to see if that quietens things down a bit. At least you could isolate the rattle if it was that?

- The smell of oil - would be good to figure out why its doing that.

 

[sae70]

I get an awful creak from my gearbox bell-housing area when I depress the clutch that I cure with a good targeted squirt of White Grease every 3/4 months since I've owned the truck. I've not yet identified if its the thrust race bearing fork creaking due to its interaction with the bearing or the forks pivot point, but a good spray of white grease through the actuating fork access hole and all is cured for a good period of time. If you get into the correct position under the truck with a torch and one of those mirrors on a stick you can get a very good look directly at the bearing on mine, if its the same for yours you may be able to get a long instrument of some kind (screwdriver) and give the bearing a tap to see if it's loose or rattles Now, my fault may seem unrelated to yours what with it being a different vehicle and different fault but the first time I did this as well as the creak I also had a rattle. Very small and nothing in comparison to the creak in terms of annoyance but that rattle never came back after the first squirt squirt of white grease some 14months or more back

 

[Olazz]

Thanks for all of the replies chaps, very much appreciated.

Will get new clutch kit and replace all and see what happens!

Interesting that Lorin has the same problem as mine, having replaced clutch. I wonder if there is an issue with this particular mating of 12v with 24v g/box? Am I correct in assuminth that the fly wheel must also have been changed to accomodate this mating?

This is a bugger as I really didn't want to have the hassle of the work all over again... just a year and 3,000 kms later!

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Thinking about the smell, have you changed anything on your axle/transfer/gearbox breathers in a time frame that fits or perhaps a breather is disconnected?

 

[Olazz]

Thinking about the smell, have you changed anything on your axle/transfer/gearbox breathers in a time frame that fits or perhaps a breather is disconnected?

Yes JV did all of those at the same time.!

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

My guess is that the smell is related to breather changes then but it is only a guess

 

[Garry]

1st motion/ inputshaft bearings !!
Depress the cutch and bearing has no load applied !
Garry

 

[Olazz]

Been looking at Toyo DIY for 24v clutch, but cannot see a difference between 24v and 12v clutch part numbers.
Phoned Mr T today and they couldn't help me without the gearbox no and vehicle chassis no.

Does anyone have the part nos for 24v clutch kit etc?

 

[Olazz]

Re: Possible Clutch & G/box problems...solved

Right, ended up ordering a new clutch kit from Mr T for a 24V, (how much...????) and just prayed I'd got the right part as I still wasn't totally sure what gearbox I've got, or if I had the correct part no.

Parts arrived on Wednesday and I decided I'd take a couple of days off to sort out the issue and do the clutch myself.
FSM in hand started the process... Had done this once before at JV's so wasn't completely new and in the dark.

Not the easiest gearbox to manhandle and manoeuvre on ones own without a ramp, but made do with straps and trolley jack etc.

Replaced the thrust bearing, which was fine, but found the cause of the rattle.. The fork spring was overstretched and loose causing the fork to rattle.

Sorted that out and the whole shebang went back together with quite a bit of sweat and [strikeyxv4oo7]quite a bit[/strikeyxv4oo7] a lot of swearing and some grazed knuckles. All now back in, road tested and not a squeak form the box or clutch.

Total time taken, 8.5 hours over 2 days (excluding time to go and buy a loooong extension for ratchet to get at top bolts on bell housing). Sorry no pics but couldn't heave, shove and take pics on my own.

At least I know its now done and the cause of the problem..... As I originally thought, it wasn't thrust bearing after all.

Now just to try and find out why and what is causing the sickening oil smell

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Glad you got it sorted I did say thrust bearing or some part of that mechanism I'm sure someone has mentioned having this problem before but I can't find it so it may have been a real conversation not a virtual one

 

[frank rabbets]

Quickly sorted and well done!!

Rattle sorted but in general when your foot is off the clutch in neutral all the gearbox internals apart from output shaft are turning. With an engine with a juddery tickover these internals can growl and rattle.

Frank

 

[Julian Voelcker]

With the box out did you notice any leaks or loose breathers that could be causing the smell?