Someone's in trouble...

[Crispin]

Talk about shortcuts in construction:


A building collapses in Taiwan and the walls are filled with oil cans. I wonder how much they actually saved in money....

 

[frank rabbets]

Yes that is bad. That appears to be a floor not a supporting pillar. I expect the floor forms part of the integrity of the structure during sideways/earthquake movement. I wonder if they ran out of concrete and had to get on with it or whether they just saved a bit of money.

That is part of Lord Lucan sticking out isn't it ?

 

[Crispin]

Not sure it's the floor. Should have put the URL to the article: http://mashable.com/2016/02/07/taiwan-earthquake-oil-cans/#UBdcM86WDgqc

not knowing that much about engineering but doesn't there seem to be very little rebar in the column on the right? Perhaps that was the job of the oilcans :S

Then again, if this was not a load-bearing wall then this is not a problem (but would it have rebar in it if it were not?)

 

[Shayne]

I read somewhere it is common practice so the building doesn't weigh so much , honestly guv it has nothing to do with with air being a smidgen cheaper than concrete

On reflection there could be something in that . If drawings specify walls on upper floors should be say 12" thick but aesthetics are improved by maintaining the appearance of the thicker walls below the same shuttering can be reused and the cans are just an ingenious way of creating a false wall , cladding if you like .

 

[clivehorridge]

Quite incredible

Totally irresponsible, unnecessary and illegal.

There'll be a huge liability on the contractor and the construction supervision team (if any).

Disgraceful.

Structural concrete gets its strength from steel bar reinforcement placed near the edge of the member or slab, so there won't be reinforcement in the main body (where the cans are) but it should be in a cage all the way around.

Of course, there should have been concrete where the cans are, otherwise the member will cave in, as it did.

 

[Crispin]

Structural concrete gets its strength from steel bar reinforcement placed near the edge of the member or slab, so there won't be reinforcement in the main body (where the cans are) but it should be in a cage all the way around.

Thanks. Often wondered, but not enough, why it's a cage around the edge and not a matrix all the way through.
I suppose it's because there is no tension through the middle as it's trying to flex "around" that?

 

[frank rabbets]

I know some concrete floors are hollow construction and perhaps they used the cans to create the voids. But yes even assuming the voids are correct the rest of the structure is not proper. looks like a floor to me as it's on it's side as I understand the building fell over. Seems to have a plastered finish as well so either a floor or wall. There does seem to be a little steel bar on both surfaces.

We might be looking at the effect of the collapse rather than the cause but that picture does not inspire confidence.

 

[Shayne]

http://www.friynds.com/m/news/view/...quake-were-reinforced-with-cooking-oil-cans-n

 

[Crispin]

dang, it looks like it did fall over rather than collapse.

 

[clivehorridge]

Cans 'ain't right I construction period

Even if the design was utilizing voids in floor slabs, they would either be extruded precast or in situ precast concrete members. If cast in situ on site, void formers should be used not rusty cans!

There are no excuses here, go to jail, directly, no passing Go!

 

[Ben]

The developer has been arrested.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35530722

 

[frank rabbets]

Your'e right Clive, not a very reliable way to form a void even assuming one were needed.

A brand new tower block fell over in China due to ground conditions altering. I'll try to find a picture.

 

[frank rabbets]

2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJGSDkmlRNM

 

[Shayne]

[h=1]This is a true story of Mother’s Sacrifice during the China Earthquake.[/h]by admin | Oct 20, 2015 | All Time Favorite, Family | 0 comments

[COLOR=#353535 !important]After the Earthquake had subsided, when the rescuers reached the ruins of a young woman’s house, they saw her dead body through the cracks. But her pose was somehow strange that she knelt on her knees like a person was worshiping; her body was leaning forward, and her two hands were supporting by an object. The collapsed house had crashed her back and her head.
With so many difficulties, the leader of the rescuer team put his hand through a narrow gap on the wall to reach the woman’s body. He was hoping that this woman could be still alive. However, the cold and stiff body told him that she had passed away for sure. He and the rest of the team left this house and were going to search the next collapsed building. For some reasons, the team leader was driven by a compelling force to go back to the ruin house of the dead woman. Again, he knelt down and used his had through the narrow cracks to search the little space under the dead body. Suddenly, he screamed with excitement,




[h=3]“A child! There is a child!”[/h]



The whole team worked together; carefully they removed the piles of ruined objects around the dead woman. There was a 3 months old little boy wrapped in a flowery blanket under his mother’s dead body. Obviously, the woman had made an ultimate sacrifice for saving her son.When her house was falling, she used her body to make a cover to protect her son. The little boy was still sleeping peacefully when the team leader picked him up.The medical doctor came quickly to exam the little boy. After he opened the blanket, he saw a cell phone inside the blanket. There was a text message on the screen. It said, “If you can survive, you must remember that I love you.” This cell phone was passing around from one hand to another. Everybody that read the message wept.





[h=3]“If you can survive, you must remember that I love you.”[/h]



Such is the mother’s love for her child.



[/COLOR]

 

[clivehorridge]

This is a true story of Mother’s Sacrifice during the China Earthquake.

by admin | Oct 20, 2015 | All Time Favorite, Family | 0 comments

[COLOR=#353535 !important]After the Earthquake had subsided, when the rescuers reached the ruins of a young woman’s house, they saw her dead body through the cracks. But her pose was somehow strange that she knelt on her knees like a person was worshiping; her body was leaning forward, and her two hands were supporting by an object. The collapsed house had crashed her back and her head.
With so many difficulties, the leader of the rescuer team put his hand through a narrow gap on the wall to reach the woman’s body. He was hoping that this woman could be still alive. However, the cold and stiff body told him that she had passed away for sure. He and the rest of the team left this house and were going to search the next collapsed building. For some reasons, the team leader was driven by a compelling force to go back to the ruin house of the dead woman. Again, he knelt down and used his had through the narrow cracks to search the little space under the dead body. Suddenly, he screamed with excitement,

“A child! There is a child!”

The whole team worked together; carefully they removed the piles of ruined objects around the dead woman. There was a 3 months old little boy wrapped in a flowery blanket under his mother’s dead body. Obviously, the woman had made an ultimate sacrifice for saving her son.When her house was falling, she used her body to make a cover to protect her son. The little boy was still sleeping peacefully when the team leader picked him up.The medical doctor came quickly to exam the little boy. After he opened the blanket, he saw a cell phone inside the blanket. There was a text message on the screen. It said, “If you can survive, you must remember that I love you.” This cell phone was passing around from one hand to another. Everybody that read the message wept.

“If you can survive, you must remember that I love you.”

Such is the mother’s love for her child. [/COLOR]

This is truly heartbreaking stuff.

I'm not suggesting that the Chinese story is as a consequence of any wrongdoing, but when read in conjunction with the Taiwan building collapse, it grieves me that for the sake of a few dollars, that building may not have suffered the catastrophic collapse that it did.

In Taiwan, at least 39 people have lost their lives and there's over 100 people not yet accounted for as a consequence of that collapse.

The arrest of the developer is the tip of the iceberg in these cases, the repercussions will go on down the line.

Remember, the construction workers would have nothing to gain from the "tin can" fiasco. That was someone's decision, solely to save the contractor (or the developer) a few dollars.

Life and the protection of, is in the hands of and the sole responsibility of these people and they should be held to book.

 

[Shayne]

Try as i might i cannot picture how the building looked before collapse , if , as it would seem , the building has literally fell over the front part of it at least has survived surprisingly well , if you drop a few million tonne it is going to break no matter how it was constructed .

I am wondering if it had an underground carpark which would make it a building on stilts , the initial contractor went bankrupt

 

[clivehorridge]

Try as i might i cannot picture how the building looked before collapse , if , as it would seem , the building has literally fell over the front part of it at least has survived surprisingly well , if you drop a few million tonne it is going to break no matter how it was constructed .

I am wondering if it had an underground carpark which would make it a building on stilts , the initial contractor went bankrupt

It looks to me that the foundation end of the building is on the left, with the roof end to the right of the photo.

The pivot point of the collapse would then be where the above ground part of the structure departed from the foundation, and the in-tact left hand side or lower part would be consistent with the right hand upper part of the structure, which obviously suffered more damage as a consequence of the severe impact with the ground having fallen from a height of 11 storeys.

The line of force and strength of a structure would normally pass in straight line vectors vertically, passing through the structure from the top to the bottom including the foundation.

Most taller buildings rely on piled foundations, which go deep into the ground and either by friction or end bearing on rock strata, offer proper support to the line of forces (taking into account side wind forces and adequate seismic allowances).

Thus, whether or not there's a basement or underground car park, the engineering should have been adequate (with ample safety margins) for all those parameters to have been met.

Clearly in this case, the evident "cans" in the construction only serve to suggest other shortfalls in the design and construction process.

There should be (and probably will be) a thorough investigation of all these aspects. It is a nonsense these days to consider static modeling for designs of structures in a seismic environment. Modern technology is very advanced even on basic seismic solutions.

This example of a catastrophic failure shows negligence somewhere along the process. Admittedly, nothing is 100% failsafe, but the evidence here is of malpractice to at least the degree of the cans, what more will they find in an investigation?

It would be tragic if the investigation becomes a cover-up and developers are allowed to repeat such a crime.

For the sake of the dead and injured, fingers crossed for a proper and constructive report from the inspectorate. Bottom line, it will demonstrate and expose who really cares.

 

[StarCruiser]

One has to ask what other buildings the contractor was involved in. We're there cans employed (perhaps to a lesser degree) in other buildings they were involved in? If it is found that others had cans in them, perhaps at a greater more successful spacing, what happens then?

 

[clivehorridge]

One has to ask what other buildings the contractor was involved in. We're there cans employed (perhaps to a lesser degree) in other buildings they were involved in? If it is found that others had cans in them, perhaps at a greater more successful spacing, what happens then?

Sadly Rich, the building will collapse sooner or later and there'll be another enquiry and another shed full of unnecessary and avoidable funerals.

Independent Design certifications, Building regulations and construction supervision are all in place for a reason, to avoid loss of life for the sake of some greedy oik who doesn't give a fcuk. I don't know a single country that doesn't have all 3 as a mandatory matter of course.

The only way around the rules is corruption, backhanders for signatures and rubber stamps.

There's a wave of litigation about to erupt here as a consequence of the terrible fire at a night club claiming some 60+ lives, and all because it was easier to get a Fire Safety Certificate with a bribe. The Prime Minister resigned over it and the government resigned, in shame and fear of recrimination. Even the courts are cheating rightful claimants out of their entitlements, by imposing file submission deadlines without publicizing the timeframe. It all stinks to hell and this cannot be allowed to go on.

Sorry, sore point. Rant over.

 

[Army of 1]

You can bet constructors heads will roll over this tragedy .. cheers Mick