Steering issue

[ByronJ]

Hi Byron

Please see "lounge".

Hi Frank, just read your post in 'Lounge'. Sorry to cause you so much hassle . I changed my steering/Link rod ball joints yesterday hence my interest in setting up tracking. Your tip on hammering the end of the rods came in really handy , thanks for that. Would you be able to eMail me the image if I PM you with my eMail address?

Byron

 

[frank rabbets]

Hi ByronView attachment 12592View attachment 12592View attachment 12592View attachment 12592 Now it won't stop uploading them!!

The car should be set with wheel positioned where it is when vehicle drives dead ahead. Adjustment of an off centre wheel is another topic.
The 2 strings are held against the tyre side walls by a hook in the rear tread and pulled tight with a weight then put on them.
Length of string is 100 inches from centre of wheel to centre of axle stand.
Height of string is 14.5 inches from floor and parallel with the ground. 30 inch diameter tyres radial.
Distance between the 2 strings is measured at the front edge of the bumper and at the axle stands.
The measurement should be equal = parallel or the axle stand measurement should be 1/2 inch less than that at the bumper. The first parallel measurement is at the outer limit of the wsm tolerance and the second is about toe in 18 minutes which is within tolerance.
e.g on my car axle stand = 73 3/4 inch. bumper = 74 1/4 inch.
The above measurement are specific to the 80 series with 30 inch radial tyres. The method will work with all cars though.

The difficult part is kneeling down and pulling the strings so they are only just touching the tyre walls. Also check the walls are true or mark the tyres and rotate by 180 degrees and repeat.

To quote from my dads WSM for the 1939 Dennis 5 ton goods carrying chassis, " Intelligent use of the equipment and interpretation of the instructions will result in a satisfactory result".

 

[frank rabbets]

WTF The pictures looked OK when they were in my typing box!!! That's why I use string, no computers moving parts or lasers for me.

Yes Byron if you pm your email address I'll send you the pics. Don't mind at all.

 

[stumog]

the engineers in my psv garage would do tracking by having the front wheels off the ground on stands the a piece of box attached to each front wheel then measure the distance front and back of the box. then just adjust the steering rod so it would have some toe in. i cant remenber how much you need now but they all drove very well like this.
stu

 

[ByronJ]

PM sent

Hi Frank. Thanks for the information, sounds intriguing . Love the quote from the WSM. I have sent a PM for the pics. Byron.

 

[warrenpfo]

Well I am none the wiser.

Still have wandering steering if the road surface has any imperfections a ridge or camber. On smooth roads its fine but hit a side wind whist on the motor way and you know all about it having to constantly counter steer to keep from heading off the road.

I have checked just about everything and am beginning to wonder if 19 year old shocks and springs might be to blame. One side is 10mm lower than the other with about 15-20mm of sag all round from old age.

I will complete my checks tomorrow and report back on everything I have looked over. I hope to remove at lease the front shocks to compress them and see how they react.

The only thing I will not have done is open up the front end to check the internals but can see how they could cause this if there is no bearing play 12&6 and 3&9 and no grinding sounds.

 

[joinerman]

Hi warren, tyres can play a big factor, do you know anyone local with an 80 who you could borrow their front wheels to try it up the road.
Are your tyres directional ? Perhaps on the wrong way round.

 

[karl webster]

Try towing another 80 warren behind an 80

I collected one today behind the new black one. I couldn't believe how well it towed with another 80 on the back. My work 80 is very tired now due to the work it does. Suspension is top of the list as well as second hand steering box and all the bendy bits for the front end. I need to get it driving how it should be. With driving my work one for so long I had forgot just how well they can drive when they are(RIGHT)

 

[clivehorridge]

Well I am none the wiser.

Still have wandering steering if the road surface has any imperfections a ridge or camber. On smooth roads its fine but hit a side wind whist on the motor way and you know all about it having to constantly counter steer to keep from heading off the road.

Depending on how severe it is Warren, you may not get it much better. I have the same symptoms but I wouldn't describe them as extreme as yours. I have to steer my truck at all times, but I put that down to it being a truck, not a car.

I haven't owned or driven a 100 though

 

[frank rabbets]

Warren double check you have toe in. Just a small amount on mine has transformed it. I was chasing this problem but gone now. I assume you have less than 20mm free play at the steering wheel rim.

If the tyres are crowned they will wander so new tyres may cure it.


Frank

 

[frank rabbets]

I assume you've checked all the link bushes front and rear. You'll need a 2ft 6inch long crowbar with a nice sharp end.

I won't revise the whole thread but you realise that a slightly loose rear axle will cause havoc steering. Havoc steering .

 

[warrenpfo]

Frank by loose end what are we talking about?? Bushes

I will rotate Tyre's today and see if that makes a difference. The Tyre's are new from the PO.

I have not had an expert check the toe in but measuring the width from the centre of the one tyre to the centre of the other (there is a ridge so it's obvious and I'm doing it from the same height as the hub) both front and back and the front measurement is 10mm less than the rear.

I have changed all the ball joints do they new.

 

[frank rabbets]

Yes just the security of all the tubular arms front and rear that hold the axles to the chassis so that is all the bushes assuming you have not got a broken arm. A large screwdriver will do.

10mm is far too much toe in wherever measured on the tyre. If you are measuring on the sidewall the midrange is 3mm right at the maximum diameter of the wheel with 30 inch tyres. Move the car 1/2 wheel revolution so you are measuring exactly the same point on the tyre. If you are measuring at about 1/2 way down the sidewall aim for 1.75mm. Or if you set the wheels parallel then rotate the track rod 1/2 turn longer you should be within range.

From what you describe there is something wrong with your 80's steering. They should not be that bad even with high mileage.

 

[ULC+ULR]

Hi

This sounds like castor issue. The axle is rotated too far to the front causing the overall geometry to get wonky. Is it lifted?

Could be worn knuckles letting the castor get out of whack. Camber could be off as well. Again; knuckles set this as do ft wheel bearings

If driving and steering is loose then look for loose or very worn components.

If you hit a bump and steering suddenly goes crazy with a harmonic causing the wheel to violently vibrate look at rear front control arm bushings

If the truck does not want to return from a turn, worse at speed, then look to castor issues

If the truck seems "twitchy" look to castor and maybe camber

If the truck always wants to go slightly the wrong way and needs to be corrected all the time look to alignment, also look to see if tires wear the same in front


Sounds like the truck wants to go in its own direction if there is any irregularity in the road. Tires grab and send ti that way and driver needs to correct. Is that right?

This gets back to castor. We see it often on newly lifted trucks. Alignment could cause this as well but it seems you worked on that already. Have they done a 4 wheel alignment? If the rear is out of alignment to the front this could happen.

 

[warrenpfo]

At Last...

First thing this morning i got the car up on jack stands and removed all the wheels. Got my 3 ft tyre lever out and went to work on all the suspension bushes that i could find. Its fair to say that most of them look original and are in surprisingly good condition but at some stage as i work through the car i will start to replace them. Its safe to say that the suspension was not the cause of my steering wander.

Having replaced all the steering ball joints and drag linkage i knew they where good and so it had to either be the steering box its self or the alignment. I rotated the tyres just for good measure and then set about checking and double checking the toe in. I found it quite difficult and maybe at Lincomb if you about Frank you can explain how to do it yet again to me as I cant seem to get a measurement at 3 and 9 due to body or engine bits being in the way. So i did 3 and then rotated both tyres all the way until the tape when pulled across and parallel using a level was touching the bottom of the castor arms.

I managed to get it parallel and then as you said gave it half a turn. Went for a spin and it is much better so thanks. I don't know if its 100% but on the short drive i did it felt good and I would say 90% there.

I did put some more air in the tyres and that might not be helping at 40psi cold so will drop 4 psi out and see if that helps.

All i can say is thanks for persisting with me and given where i am now vs when i started i am much happier and can now move on to other jobs.

 

[clivehorridge]

That's very good news Warren, can't have a new 80 owner upset with his "soon to be" pride and joy!

 

[frank rabbets]

Hi Warren if you send me your email I'll send a picture.

90% is very good for an 80 .

 

[frank rabbets]

Just adjusted my tyre pressures and gone for a fast drive to blow the soot out before MOT and the 80 handles as good as my 100 which only has 65k on the clock. Well pleased indeed, adjusting the steering box and tracking has transformed my 80. The wear creeps up on you over the years. I can now drive my 80 and enjoy the scenery, not the scenario any more.