Steering Relay Arm

[clivehorridge]

After fitting the suspension lift arm droppers (sorry, I have no idea what those arms are called holding the front axle on) to correct castor on my 80, it was like driving someone else's truck.

Now, it drives straight, no veering, I can even hit deep puddles on one wheel and it doesn't pull, it's lovely to drive now, whereas before, I was steering all the time, and hitting road puddles was plain dangerous trying to maintain a reasonable line.

 

[Dave2000]

I think you’re right Frank, it has to be a road camber thing, though I have come across quite a few VWs that do tend to gently drift left, even on a seemingly level road. Possibly a story put about by dealers to explain bad setups.

Ah, they were the ones with the naughty emissions ECU's, they altered the emissions when subjected to testing, some had ECU's that incorrectly altered the steering depending on what country you were in.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave2000]

Something else to think about when working the 80 hard, the steering shaft where it leaves the box can twist and perhaps shear. If the steering is good one day and then after some heavy off roading it is 'off', then then look for this particular type of damage.

The way to go it seems is to rebuild the 80 box with a 105 shaft (heavier) and then fit a 105 relay arm, just throwing this out there for future thoughts.

regards

Dave

 

[frank rabbets]

When they are new some cars pull more than others. Just depends on how the peculiarity is. The 80's tend to pull average-heavy. If your 80 pulls when on a level road it's either a bent front axle, worn king pin bearings or an inequality in the tyres e.g. wear, tyre pressure or even a heavier tyre (gyroscopic feedback whilst wheel rotating).

 

[Towpack]

IMO this road camber effect thing is exaggerated. Before I adjusted the steering drift to the left (hands off) was the same wether on a normal road of flat level car park. I agree it affects tyre wear long term and is more noticeable on motorcycle tyres where the tread is profiled and not flat but saying it makes a vehicle, especially a large heavy 4x4, pull to the left I'm just not buying it. Sorry.

 

[clivehorridge]

Something else to think about when working the 80 hard, the steering shaft where it leaves the box can twist and perhaps shear. If the steering is good one day and then after some heavy off roading it is 'off', then then look for this particular type of damage.

The way to go it seems is to rebuild the 80 box with a 105 shaft (heavier) and then fit a 105 relay arm, just throwing this out there for future thoughts.

regards

Dave

I'll vouch for them being able to break there Dave, ask me how I know.

There was no warning, no steering wheel out of alignment, just a shaft one minute, then no shaft at all, just the 2 ends.

 

[Dave2000]

I do recall the conversation about the drag link breaking and my efforts to replace with heavy duty replacements Clive, are you talking about that? Just so there is no confusion I am talking about the shaft projecting from the bottom of the actual steering box which needs removing and replacing or rebuilding.

If we are on the same page, did you have the steering box rebuilt to stock or use the stronger sector shaft?

regards

Dave

 

[clivehorridge]

I do recall the conversation about the drag link breaking and my efforts to replace with heavy duty replacements Clive, are you talking about that? Just so there is no confusion I am talking about the shaft projecting from the bottom of the actual steering box which needs removing and replacing or rebuilding.

If we are on the same page, did you have the steering box rebuilt to stock or use the stronger sector shaft?

regards

Dave

Yep, the shaft broke between where it emerges from the steering box and the pitman arm.

I had the steering box rebuilt with a new shaft (expensive part, cough) but sadly at that time in 2014 I wasn't aware of any upgrade using 105 parts.

Still, it's been good ever since, touching wood (if saying that is not obscene these days).

It happpened about 2 years after having the ball joint at the other end of the pitman, connecting to the steering arm (drag link?) seize up and shear the taper pin at the ball. I think this was my first ever post on this forum.

I'll never know if the two events were connected somehow.

All these are hefty components, so it goes to show the forces going on in this system.

 

[Dave2000]

Thanks for clarifying that Clive, I did recall the broken steering arm, IIRC it was your post alongside another forum members that had me immediately replace my steering gear with heavy duty components. I did not know you had the shaft fail though.

Regards

Dave

 

[fbnss]

I think this was my first ever post on this forum.

Still not introduced yourself then...

 

[frank rabbets]

TP why do you think your car pulled when on a level surface?

 

[Towpack]

Frank, I don't think it did, I know it did. Keeping a straight line meant 'steering' slightly right with the steering wheel off centre. Releasing the wheel meant it centred itself and the LC pulled left. The only adjustment I made was to the rod linking the steering box to the LH steering arm. This cured it, running straight and true with the steering wheel centred.

 

[frank rabbets]

Yes but why ?

 

[Towpack]

.....because the steering the steering centred itself when the wheel was released but, unfortunately, the centre position of the steering did not correspond with the front wheels pointing straight ahead. If the pull to the left was related to incorrect toe in/out, castor or anything other than the steering centre position then the adjustment I made would have had no effect. That's my theory anyway and I'm sticking to it! The self centering of the steering box may not be as pronounced as that on a car with a rack and pinion steering setup but it's there nonetheless.

 

[frank rabbets]

That's why I think your steering self centred itself because of worn king pin bearings. These are tapered rollers and when worn self centre in the dead ahead position. There's defo nothing in the steering box that self centres. There is no self centreing in rack and pinion steering. There's plenty of videos of HGV's and other vehicles drifting off to the left on mways. That's why the hard shoulder is dangerous to park on as when a driver goes to sleep the camber takes one onto the hard shoulder.

 

[Towpack]

....so how would centreing the steering wheel compensate for worn king pin bearings? If worn king pin bearings cause the steering to self centre then why didn't mine self centre with the steering wheel turned slightly to the right?

 

[frank rabbets]

This is what happened to me and I guess what is happening to you. When the bearings are worn the front wheels tend to self centre in the dead ahead position. This cancels out the camber of the road more or less. Assuming the steering wheel was always centred during the wear and afterwards one is none the wiser but if the steering arm is shortened or lengthened the car will pull one way or the other if the wheel is held dead ahead.

First of all the effect is slight but the greater the wear the more the self centreing effect of the king pins. I assume, as my bearings were not so worn, that if the bearing preload went or the bearings were terrible the self centring would go.