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Sumo, and some-more

chapel gate

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Hi Dave, yes, broad shoulders, 22 year old trucks seem to develop them well !

Are you suggesting a complete swap-out of the existing box to a 105 box? I'm wary of mix and match due to "other" consequences of a clash somewhere else, but if you know it's doable, I'd be interested.

Chapel Gate has indicated an upgrade is available, so I'm investigating that option too. It may amount to the same thing.

Karl's suggestion is valid too, I could have been killed when that shaft sheared off. Now I'm conscious that the current twisted shaft could let go without warning.
the 105 steering box is the same as the 80s, some years have the uprated sector shaft.

The uprated sector shaft and pitman arm will fit your existing steering box.

ive got pictures of the two side by side and the appropiate part numbers and years.

we are off out for the day soon so itll be later on clive
 

clivehorridge

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the 105 steering box is the same as the 80s, some years have the uprated sector shaft.

The uprated sector shaft and pitman arm will fit your existing steering box.

ive got pictures of the two side by side and the appropiate part numbers and years.

we are off out for the day soon so itll be later on clive

That would be excellent, thank you very much indeed, much appreciated :thumbup:
 

Dave 2000

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As per @chapel gate, it is a common upgrade, I did actually think all 105's had the larger shaft?

Don't worry about the mix and match Clive, it is a genuine upgrade and unlikely to break again.

Like anything, you upgrade one component and move the weak point further along the mechanism, age along with the bigger wheels/tyres add to the stress IMO.

Regards

Dave
 

StarCruiser

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Although that shaft has twisted Clive I would be very surprised if it was in immediate danger of failure. That said I completely get any nervousness you may be feeling and it's wise to get it changed as soon as practical.
 

clivehorridge

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Although that shaft has twisted Clive I would be very surprised if it was in immediate danger of failure. That said I completely get any nervousness you may be feeling and it's wise to get it changed as soon as practical.

Once bitten, really Rich. When it sheared off, I was slowly pulling away from the kerb, hardly any force being applied to the steering.

The thought of it going at speed still makes me cringe. You should have seen the look on my face driving back to the city tonight.... :lol:

Yes Steve, good that I've got time to get it all sorted before the snow comes :thumbup:
 
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chapel gate

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sector shaft.jpg


the 105 shaft is on the right, subtle difference. the splined section is full width of the shaft bar the taper, the splines are deeper. new pitman arm also needed to allow for the larger diameter.
 

clivehorridge

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OK, to start to put this one to bed, after a strip-down, the wheel bearing was found to have shat itself.

An amazing amount of play considering there were no adverse symptoms when driving. It does explain why I was getting excess pedal travel on the first press, the wobbling disc had been pushing the pads back!

The CVs have been checked along with the top & bottom pivots, all is well in the cannon balls, plenty of grease and no oil leaking from the diff, and the diff oil level is spot on.

The 105 sector shaft and its mate, the pitman arm, are on order, so soon that will be sorted too.

It seems that the Sumo tracking/tie-bar won't go on because it's too close to the diff on full-lock each side. As it moves from lock to lock it moves forwards, and the standard bar is catching the underside of the taper on the diff housing.

My guys are going to try to find some modified track rod ends, with longer reach taper pins, which will give the bar more clearance to the diff.

Progress, anyway !
 

clivehorridge

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To add a little to the last post, the welder guy is confident that there's no worries about rust in the area of the cracks.

He vee'd them out before welding them up nicely, and said that the cracks were "fresh" and probably happened on impact, when the wheel was slammed into the steering stop.

He didn't have time when he did it, to add reinforcement, but he said he's done these before on 80s, and he knows what to do when he gets the truck back in.

I've thought about this, and consider that the adjustable stop at each wheel, should be set to stop the wheel before or coincident with, the lock limit inside the steering box.

Evidently, in my case, the wheel was able to turn further than the steering box would allow, resulting in the sector shaft twisting.

If the wheel lock-stop had been set at the limit of the steering box lock, then there would have been no potential to twist the shaft.

When all this is reassembled with the new parts, I'm going to crack the tapers on the control arm ball joints, and reset the wheel lock stops to limit the lock a couple of threads earlier than the lock-limit of the steering box, to try to avoid this happening again.

Does anyone have their own thoughts on this?

It's a precautionary consideration, as IMO, the wheel lock-stop is nothing other than a protective device intended to prevent the steering box components from being forced beyond their limits.

Comments appreciated...
 
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Iwan

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Funny that you mentioned the cracks today! Cause thats the job Im on today!
As my engine is out Ive got to get a really good look at the steering box chassis area.
20170924_145228.jpg

Mine has lots of rusty cracks! So am on plate reinforcement of the area. From between the mount bolts up and around the top of the panard mount has gone and the opposite corner at the bottom has gone around the lower edge of the steering box mount. I ground down the previous repair I did and the weld was cracked.. but it was only 1/2 a repair as I couldn't get to the inside..
Hope the info helps!!
 

clivehorridge

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Oh dear, Iwan, that does look a bit crusty :|

Still, I and I'm sure you, have repaired worse in our times :lol:

I've got nice looking welds on mine, waiting for him to have it back for reinforcements to be added.

There will be then I hope...
 

StarCruiser

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I agree with your setting of the stops Clive. Which makes me wonder if the replacement steering box shaft and arm were possibly not set in the centre of travel, if you know what I mean, hitting the stop on one lock but hitting the box on the other lock?

I also wonder if the additional travel you experienced forced the tyre against something solid and the momentum dragged the axle round or somehow wrenched it if you see what I mean?
 

clivehorridge

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I think the damaged shaft is evidence that the cannonball stops should be set to align with the steering box limits, and of course the steering arm should be adjusted so that the steering box is centralized.

If not, then the steering box will take the brunt of a similar event again, which I'm going to try to avoid.

There's a logic to all this :icon-ugeek:.
 

Shayne

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I'm not sure i follow Clive :think: are you saying the stops should stop things :whistle:
 

clivehorridge

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I'm not sure i follow Clive :think: are you saying the stops should stop things :whistle:

Ha, ha, in a word yes, they should stop the steering box from self destructing, and mine didn't!

All to be rectified soon...
 

StarCruiser

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For the amount of twist your shaft has experienced :shock:, it looks like it was quite a bit off centre there Clive. Quite difficult to check once it's all fitted, so I guess your service guys are under strict instructions to get it centred correctly, if they did the last one of course, if not I guess they will do it correctly without asking.
 

clivehorridge

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For the amount of twist your shaft has experienced :shock:, it looks like it was quite a bit off centre there Clive. Quite difficult to check once it's all fitted, so I guess your service guys are under strict instructions to get it centred correctly, if they did the last one of course, if not I guess they will do it correctly without asking.

I'll be having a "chat" with them, that's for sure, Rich.

In my mind, after the repair, if I park the vehicle straight, then crack the taper on the pitman to steering arm ball joint, the steering box should be centered, i.e. it should give me equal turns of the wheel right to left. If not, I'll need to reconnect the ball joint and adjust the steering arm to suit.

After that, I need to set it on extreme left, and check that it's against the cannonball stop. If it is, I should wind the stop in until there's a gap, then close that gap and keep adjusting a couple of threads on the stop. Then do the same on RH lock.

That way it will be centered and the stops will hit before the box gets to its limits.
 

clivehorridge

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Ok, for those still awake, or remotely interested, I got the truck back today :dance:

Firstly, I’m eternally grateful to @chapel gate for his attention, assistance, advice and offers of parts in this regard. If it wasn’t for me living in Eastern Europe, I would have taken full advantage of several lucrative offers of new parts, however the shipping/import made it evens, when I priced stuff here. Anyway, is seems he’s much more clued up on LCs than many of the “experts” and with his advice, I was able to guide my service garage as to what needed doing.
They installed the “upgrade” into my 80 steering box, being the 105 sector shaft and matching seals and Pitman arm. The service was dubious at first, but soon realized that it would work!
The 105 shaft is thicker at the spline, so less likely to be twisted by impact, than the standard 80 shaft.
They also agreed with me about the steering stops on the axle, they are there to protect the steering box against being forced beyond its limits, when a wheel is hit by a rock or whatever, slamming the steering wheel to one extreme or the other.
In setting the steering box to center, and likewise the steering link bar from the Pitman arm, they found that the number of turns left was not equal to the number of turns right.
This was due to the axle not being central to the chassis rails.
I know this isn’t a big deal, it’s not uncommon in lifted trucks for the Panhard rod to pull the axle over. I didn’t realize, but mine is off centre by just over an inch, so I’m lashing out on an adjustable one, so as to get it central.
They set up the stops at the axle so they now limit the steer angle just before the box gets to its limit, so this will reduce the chances of reoccurrence.
Lesson learned!
They’re also exploring the solution to overcome the track arm fouling the diff casing on full lock.
Iron Man do a kit, so when they find it, I’ll be having a good look at what it does and how, to see if it’s suitable to resolve the issue.
They also replaced a leaking flexi-hose in the power steering line, so no more dampness in that area under the pump!
So, for now, I have a dry truck again, I hate leaks, and the steering is spot on!

Thanks again @chapel gate, your advice was priceless!

BTW, the welder guy put some reinforcement on the Panhard rod mount, but the welding is not as pretty as his work on the cracks. Not to worry, it’s secure, but the welding is a bit gobby. I can live with it though, it’s all strong stuff.

To be continued....
 
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