The corona virus thread

[jibberjabber]

Human nature is a curious thing and the world has never faced anything quite like this before at least not with eyes wide open in full knowledge . How long might lock down have been effective in Britain had it been imposed when 10 people had been infected causing 5 fatalities ?

Reports of protests against lock down in America are gloatingly spread all over the tabloids but 50 states will see some hit worse than others . Germany appears to have done remarkably well in response to the virus but i believe there to people are protesting . Some part of Paris always seems to be on fire so its not worth discussing that and i know nothing of Morocco or Spain so i can't comment on either , but ..........

National identity , stereotypical prejudice if you like , does , will and must play a part in forward planning . While beating people with sticks might ensure establishment is obeyed in one corner of the world the very same would incite riots in another corner . Its not a competition and there is no right and wrong way to do something that has never been done before , because human nature is a funny thing .

Seems to me by accident or design Doris walked this tightrope between security and freedom really quite well , we can't "save the N.H.S" if there's no problem to see , but the way things worked out lock down became more or less a voluntary affair which sits comfortably with the mindset of this nation . If vilifying a few inconsiderate muppets keeps the peace for a few more weeks then it only helps .

The scale of this catastrophe makes it beyond the scope and competence of any government to exploit .

Sorry, I don't understand what your getting at.

 

[Shayne]

The crux of it is voluntary sacrifice for the greater good has here at least worked better than any other method might have , it won't last forever but having invested so much in it people don't want to risk a second wave .

 

[jibberjabber]

The crux of it is voluntary sacrifice for the greater good has here at least worked better than any other method might have , it won't last forever but having invested so much in it people don't want to risk a second wave .

Right, I get it now. But if the majority of the People are staying in and not spreading, then the well over 20,000 dead must have caught it from some where, that can only be from the spreaders that won't listen to the advice from the specialists, the government are under massive pressure to relax the so called lockdown, then when they bow to the pressure the bug will rear it's ugly head again, all because the minority don't like being told in their opinion what to do.

If the lockdown had been enforced more strictly then there would not have been so many deaths, unforntunatly the police have picked on the easy and soft tagets, and not the covidiots.

 

[Shayne]

That very first weekend of lock down when thousands flocked to beaches and parks for one last fling with freedom ensured the numbers would be high . Nobody really believed it all then but from that weekend on the consequences , the peak , and the slide were set in motion . Sad fact is the casualties brought everyone onside ultimately saving many more lives in the long term .

 

[Tractionman]

Agree with most of that Shayne, but sad fact is, a lot of those people and more are thinking they have had enough, and it's alright now, judging by the rise in traffic and general public about round here.
These pockets of minority, could effectively be spreading/prolonging of the virus and lockdown? for us responsible ones.

 

[Shayne]

Sooner or later we and the government have to put our trust in the assumption people don't want to die so trust the masses to evaluate risk and act responsibly .

 

[jibberjabber]

Sooner or later we and the government have to put our trust in the assumption people don't want to die so trust the masses to evaluate risk and act responsibly .

Good old 'Risk Assessment' never fails

 

[goodoldboy]

If the lockdown had been enforced more strictly then there would not have been so many deaths,

if the Government had acted sooner
maybe ?

then the well over 20,000 dead must have caught it from some where,

yes in the workplace , on public transport , shopping etc.
without tracking & tracing there's no way of knowing who has spread the virus.
You really are determined to blame the "idiots" for this & let the government off the hook.

 

[Tractionman]

if the Government had acted sooner
maybe ?

yes in the workplace , on public transport , shopping etc.
without tracking & tracing there's no way of knowing who has spread the virus.
You really are determined to blame the "idiots" for this & let the government off the hook.

Going to holiday homes ? The 'government' dont know if their on there arse or their elbow. Even twats in their own 'club' feel it doesnt apply to them, so really it is no surprise we have idiots out there.
'Government' don't tend to mix with the general populus as much as idiots on the street.

 

[Shayne]

If this is correct what chance do 2 or 10 or even 100 people have of infecting each other should they meet all having spent a month in isolation with no symptoms ?

 

[jibberjabber]

if the Government had acted sooner
maybe ?

yes in the workplace , on public transport , shopping etc.
without tracking & tracing there's no way of knowing who has spread the virus.
You really are determined to blame the "idiots" for this & let the government off the hook.

Like I've said before, the only thing you do is complain your always negative and depressing, can't you ever say something nice.

Is there a government anywhere in the world that you have a good word for?

Come up with a plan how you would run the UK, and let us all know!

But as usual, you won't answer the questions.

 

[MarkW]

pretty sure the government haven't been spreading the virus? and yes people ignoring the lockdown requirements are idiots, risking everyone else for their own selfish needs

Interesting that a link that is critical of the governments response is posted yet when the discussion is about a government that acted faster to control the virus
then that's repression of the population

 

[goodoldboy]

Like I've said before, the only thing you do is complain your always negative and depressing, can't you ever say something nice.

a classic ad hominem attack
is that really the best criticism you have of the substance of what I've said?
you've constantly pushed your simplistic argument about the "idiots" & because i have the temerity to disagree with what you've said you seem to take great offence.If you find my view of the situation depressing just don't read it , no one is forcing you.
to engage

Is there a government anywhere in the world that you have a good word for?

No.I don't believe in governments , i'm an anarchist. Germany all seems to have dealt better with the situation but i'm not up to speed with what they've done ,i'm doing a bricklaying job at the moment , pretty busy.
As i said in my previous post without a scientific analysts of the spread - like South Korea - we simply don't know what's causing the the contagion. You've made the claim that if the lockdown had been enforced strictly then there would have been fewer deaths so what evidence do you have?
Now as for the Anarchist plan to run the world , it doesn't exist & never will.If your understanding of anarchy went further than cutting & pasting from wikipedia you'd know that it's a political philosophy , a set of guiding principles , not a dogma or a series of rules.
Anyone here who has ever diagnosed & then fixed a problem on their Landcruiser will know that having a pre determined plan before you know what the problem is leads almost certainly to failure.
Having said that my take on the current crisis & the state of the NHS is that on the medical side , Nurses , Doctors & scientist should be in charge of all medical matters.Cooks , cleaners , porters & other support staff should take charge of all other operational matters. Paitients & the community should have a voice along side the staff to decide what the priorities are.
Another part of this "plan" would relegate all politicians to essential work.A job on a bin wagon & having to live on the wages that it paid would maybe change their perspective?
To me anarchy means looking out for each other , putting peoples needs first & those who can putting in a shift.Any authority should be justified - if a firefighter tells you not to smoke near a gas leak you shouldn't .

 

[goodoldboy]

Interesting that a link that is critical of the governments response is posted yet when the discussion is about a government that acted faster to control the virus
then that's repression of the population

i did acknowledge this in my previous post to you
" effectiveness of measures may in some part be due to the numbers who normally travel to the country although they acted quickly suspending flights"
the two are not mutually exclusive , effective action can go hand in hand with repression.Fiji has gagged any criticism in the press & Hungary has used the emergency to allow the PM to rule by decree indefinitely.The news from New Zealand & Germany isn't about 1000s of fines or arrests but of low mortality and a containment of spread.You seem to have a lot of faith in the authorities & don't see any danger in giving s free hand to those in power.One of the most basic principles of democracy is that those in power are held to account & have to answer to their citizens,
In the UK the dominant political philosophy of the last 40 years has been that any collective responsibility ,any public service or anything that protects the weak or vulnerable is socialism or Communism & so called free markets give a better outcome.The very idea of society has been attacked " individual rights & choice" dominate above all else.and now your'e complaining about people ignoring the restrictions?

 

[Shayne]

I kinda like the idea of anarchy but i accept its a myth that goes against the natural order of things or else it would exist in the animal kingdom but it doesn't because all social groups of animals i can think of follow the leader .

Natural ability goes way beyond anything that can be taught or learned so lump any group of people together regardless of the situation and a hierarchy will evolve .

If the blame game must be played then i blame China , had the alarm been raised as and when it should this entire episode could have been contained within a fortnight .

 

[jibberjabber]

pretty sure the government haven't been spreading the virus? and yes people ignoring the lockdown requirements are idiots, risking everyone else for their own selfish needs

Interesting that a link that is critical of the governments response is posted yet when the discussion is about a government that acted faster to control the virus
then that's repression of the population

Again ............ GOB's comedian

 

[Tractionman]

a classic ad hominem attack
is that really the best criticism you have of the substance of what I've said?
you've constantly pushed your simplistic argument about the "idiots" & because i have the temerity to disagree with what you've said you seem to take great offence.If you find my view of the situation depressing just don't read it , no one is forcing you.
to engage



No.I don't believe in governments , i'm an anarchist. Germany all seems to have dealt better with the situation but i'm not up to speed with what they've done ,i'm doing a bricklaying job at the moment , pretty busy.
As i said in my previous post without a scientific analysts of the spread - like South Korea - we simply don't know what's causing the the contagion. You've made the claim that if the lockdown had been enforced strictly then there would have been fewer deaths so what evidence do you have?
Now as for the Anarchist plan to run the world , it doesn't exist & never will.If your understanding of anarchy went further than cutting & pasting from wikipedia you'd know that it's a political philosophy , a set of guiding principles , not a dogma or a series of rules.
Anyone here who has ever diagnosed & then fixed a problem on their Landcruiser will know that having a pre determined plan before you know what the problem is leads almost certainly to failure.
Having said that my take on the current crisis & the state of the NHS is that on the medical side , Nurses , Doctors & scientist should be in charge of all medical matters.Cooks , cleaners , porters & other support staff should take charge of all other operational matters. Paitients & the community should have a voice along side the staff to decide what the priorities are.
Another part of this "plan" would relegate all politicians to essential work.A job on a bin wagon & having to live on the wages that it paid would maybe change their perspective?
To me anarchy means looking out for each other , putting peoples needs first & those who can putting in a shift.Any authority should be justified - if a firefighter tells you not to smoke near a gas leak you shouldn't .

a classic ad hominem attack
is that really the best criticism you have of the substance of what I've said?
you've constantly pushed your simplistic argument about the "idiots" & because i have the temerity to disagree with what you've said you seem to take great offence.If you find my view of the situation depressing just don't read it , no one is forcing you.
to engage



No.I don't believe in governments , i'm an anarchist. Germany all seems to have dealt better with the situation but i'm not up to speed with what they've done ,i'm doing a bricklaying job at the moment , pretty busy.
As i said in my previous post without a scientific analysts of the spread - like South Korea - we simply don't know what's causing the the contagion. You've made the claim that if the lockdown had been enforced strictly then there would have been fewer deaths so what evidence do you have?
Now as for the Anarchist plan to run the world , it doesn't exist & never will.If your understanding of anarchy went further than cutting & pasting from wikipedia you'd know that it's a political philosophy , a set of guiding principles , not a dogma or a series of rules.
Anyone here who has ever diagnosed & then fixed a problem on their Landcruiser will know that having a pre determined plan before you know what the problem is leads almost certainly to failure.
Having said that my take on the current crisis & the state of the NHS is that on the medical side , Nurses , Doctors & scientist should be in charge of all medical matters.Cooks , cleaners , porters & other support staff should take charge of all other operational matters. Paitients & the community should have a voice along side the staff to decide what the priorities are.
Another part of this "plan" would relegate all politicians to essential work.A job on a bin wagon & having to live on the wages that it paid would maybe change their perspective?
To me anarchy means looking out for each other , putting peoples needs first & those who can putting in a shift.Any authority should be justified - if a firefighter tells you not to smoke near a gas leak you shouldn't .

Now that I like, politician's on bin wagons, living on their wages, let them clear up some of their own shift for a change !

 

[jibberjabber]

Now that I like, politician's on bin wagons, living on their wages, let them clear up some of their own shift for a change !

Your a GOB fan

 

[Tractionman]

Your a GOB fan

Spot the spelling, supposed to read shit but predictive replaced with shift, not quite the same impact.
Yeah, I love loads of GOB

 

[GeekOKent]

Interesting news out of New Zealand today... Can they keep up the 'no new infection' for 14 days? Sealed borders, test everything in bound... And start testing again in 14 days only for people with the right symptoms... They may not need a vaccine or a cure. Let's assume they get there.

How long will they remain isolated ? Can they ? Do they need to ?