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The people have spoken

Shayne said:
leeching everything in its path for profit - and where is that profit going ....... to promote austerity ?
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Capitalism in a nutshell.Last time I checked the peoples republic of GB had the same system.
Shayne said:
the EU in its current form does not and will not work for the vast majority of people .
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nor does UK economic policy , which for the last 40 odd years has dismantled social provision , asset stripped anything of worth & relied on increasing levels of debt & successive housing bubbles to keep the economy staggering along.
As for analogies , whatever happened to fixing the roof whilst the sun is,shining?
 
The only question left on the table now is to accept the deal on offer or not .

To put that choice to the public is the only democratic way forward .

Brexiteers owe a debt of gratitude to the proponents of a second referendum :clap:
 
I'm keeping out of it. Fugg it, no im not! Winston Churchill wanted a United Europe. My mother wants him back as pm, she also wants b&w tv, rickets and everything else that was British in the 40's. We have hardly spoken in a year. She went mental calling me a traitor as I live in France! They voted out because of all the foreigners coming in. The surgeon's who saved my father's life 3 or 4 times so far were all foreign. Some European, some Indian. Bloody foreigners. Nurses, carers, cleaners? They have the car washed at a Polish hand car wash. Their plumber is from Poland. The guy who does the painting and decorating is a non eu guy. Bloody foreigners! Where will they be when the hatred of Jonney foreigner drives them to other, more welcoming shores? She reads the daily mail btw.
The UK has to realise they are a poxy little island in a big world. They are no longer a massive empire, and will never be again. We all need each other. It's not them & us. Get over the empire thing, come back into the eu and have a cuddle :icon-biggrin:
 
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Given that no one really understands the real implications, asking the public for a vote on take it or leave it would be no better than the last vote where people mostly voted for leaving something they didn't understand, for reasons they made up for themselves and for a goal that is a lie.

The 1% ofcourse does not care, the 99% will suffer for them.
 
The xenophobia is misinterpreted on both sides of the debate i feel Steve , for your mother i imagine it signifies (in a very blunt way) her general discontent with the way thing are , the negative change she has witnessed in her community that is so overwhelming it denies comprehension , hence it is foreign to her "and foreigners must have caused it"

My regular watering hole referred to as a ruffians bar by the mrs who would not go there alone , is also a hotel so i might play pool with a number of nationalities on any given day , yet i have never witnessed any evidence of xenophobia there . Perhaps because most arrive there for a pint after work before going home , they are earning , most have a trade of some sort , the hotel guests are most likely staying in town for work . I've asked Italians and Romanians over a pint what they thought of Brexit and they said it was good because they didn't like the EU either .

I employ a Russian and while i'm well aware i could half his pay rate , because that's typical behavior i don't , he earns his worth same as every local guy that came before him . Sadly though the "typical" phenomenon has over a decade or two has vastly reduced the number of homegrown local youngsters wanting to enter into the industry .

Helen being a cleaner working for the same company for 38 years though that company has been bought and sold more times than she can remember is entirely at the mercy of globalization . Her boss doesn't know who her boss is . Contracts worth millions are separated into sites and each site team is independent of the next , time and time again she has seen a Romanian , a Pole , a Sudanese made manager of one of those sites , and each will only employ those who speak their native language .

Even if we crash out nothing is going to change , nobody is going to build "a wall" France and Germany will not stop selling us cars , all we get out of crashing out is a vote that actually means something and politicians who have to listen to peoples concerns at a local level if they want to stay on the gravy train .
 
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Shayne said:
Even if we crash out nothing is going to change , nobody is going to build "a wall" France and Germany will not stop selling us cars , all we get out of crashing out is a vote that actually means something and politicians who have to listen to peoples concerns at a local level if they want to stay on the gravy train .
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I realise the wall thing is sarcasm, but is the car stuff? I don't think even the feariest of project fear suggest people won't still sell us stuff. It will cost more because our currency will be weaker, which I am told is a good thing because it helps our exports to be more competitive. And we will have to apply tariffs because that's WTO rules.

The issues people do worry about are more around multi-nati0nal supply chains, and the tariffs and customs delays that will affect them. And I have yet to see a good solution for them. John Redwood (always held in high regard in Wales!) has suggested we just won't apply customs checks in the short term, which would immediately break the WTO rule we say we will trade under. And ignores the problem that the EU may chose to adhere to international trade rules and start checking all those trucks going back to the EU giving us the M20 carpark. And if those trucks are in Kent they won't be bringing in more goods through our illegally open border.

I'd love to think the result of all of this will be politicians listening and helping more. But does anyone really think that is likley given how the last two years have gone?

For the record I think the current "deal" is a sensible compromise. We leave the EU but we retain close ties. I doubt it's what either "side" wants, but given how close the referendum was it strikes me as a reasonable reflection of what the public as a whole would support. As people from both sides like to remind us we do need to unite again, and any deal too far from the center ground is never going to do that. Unfortunately the political opposition's strategy seems to be to watch the country crash and burn and hope to brush the ashes off first.
 
froggy Steve said:
I'm keeping out of it. Fugg it, no im not! Winston Churchill wanted a United Europe. My mother wants him back as pm, she also wants b&w tv, rickets and everything else that was British in the 40's. We have hardly spoken in a year. She went mental calling me a traitor as I live in France! They voted out because of all the foreigners coming in. The surgeon's who saved my father's life 3 or 4 times so far were all foreign. Some European, some Indian. Bloody foreigners. Nurses, carers, cleaners? They have the car washed at a Polish hand car wash. Their plumber is from Poland. The guy who does the painting and decorating is a non eu guy. Bloody foreigners! Where will they be when the hatred of Jonney foreigner drives them to other, more welcoming shores? She reads the daily mail btw.
The UK has to realise they are a poxy little island in a big world. They ate no longer a massive empire, and will never be again. We all need each other. It's not them & us. Get over the empire thing, come back into the eu and have a cuddle :icon-biggrin:
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"a poxy little island?"
I'm glad to say there are millions who think differently Steve, I don't want to be rude but with attitudes like that I would say France is a better place for them.
 
froggy Steve said:
I'm keeping out of it. Fugg it, no im not! Winston Churchill wanted a United Europe. My mother wants him back as pm, she also wants b&w tv, rickets and everything else that was British in the 40's. We have hardly spoken in a year. She went mental calling me a traitor as I live in France! They voted out because of all the foreigners coming in. The surgeon's who saved my father's life 3 or 4 times so far were all foreign. Some European, some Indian. Bloody foreigners. Nurses, carers, cleaners? They have the car washed at a Polish hand car wash. Their plumber is from Poland. The guy who does the painting and decorating is a non eu guy. Bloody foreigners! Where will they be when the hatred of Jonney foreigner drives them to other, more welcoming shores? She reads the daily mail btw.
The UK has to realise they are a poxy little island in a big world. They are no longer a massive empire, and will never be again. We all need each other. It's not them & us. Get over the empire thing, come back into the eu and have a cuddle :icon-biggrin:
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I was gonna have a say on this, But this post said everything I was going to... :thumbup: Thumbs up Steve.. Spot on
 
It is a small island Chas, and currently a laughing stock, well the so called government is. The armed forces are tiny, ill equipped, underfunded and short of many thousands of personnel. There is no empire, times have moved on.
 
froggy Steve said:
It is a small island Chas, and currently a laughing stock, well the so called government is. The armed forces are tiny, ill equipped, underfunded and short of many thousands of personnel. There is no empire, times have moved on.
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No! you mean to tell me there is NO Empire, when did that happen Steve? you'll be telling me next there is no Santa Claus :laughing-rolling:, you could represent France at stating the bleeding obvious.
Yes we are a small island and we could be better without interference from Brussels. :angry-screaming:
.
Lets face it the EU needs us more than we need the EU.
 
Rob Cowell said:
I'd love to think the result of all of this will be politicians listening and helping more. But does anyone really think that is likley given how the last two years have gone?
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They haven't been listening to very loud concerns for at least 20 years , they all have to go before the benefits of leaving will filter down to the street , what was it Churchill said "I have nothing to offer but blood , toil , tears and sweat" . Few things of great worth are achieved quickly .

froggy Steve said:
It is a small island Chas, and currently a laughing stock, well the so called government is. The armed forces are tiny, ill equipped, underfunded and short of many thousands of personnel. There is no empire, times have moved on.
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Your right Steve , nobody cares about an individual nation when leaders can be bought , coerced , forced to cede power to an undemocratic behemoth who will leech every nation it encounters of all its assets to ensure obedience . This is so good for the people Paris is on fire in celebration :lol:
 
Shayne said:
They haven't been listening to very loud concerns for at least 20 years , they all have to go before the benefits of leaving will filter down to the street
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The problem is the whole wiping out a political class thing has been tried a few times. The only one I can think of that improved things is the French revolution. And that was probably the least bloody. Only 20-30,000 deaths. Given that historically that is a best case it's a bold gambit.
 
It's bold beyond reason , it's sad , depressing , divisive and wholly negative . But while those in charge look up for answers most of the 500 odd million people beneath them are ignored . The level of discontent can only increase because nobody can offer any alternative to austerity and those who enjoy the boom are unaffected by the bust that must assuredly follow , and the answer to that will be even more austerity .

austerity
/ɒˈstɛrɪti,ɔːˈstɛrɪti/
noun
noun: austerity; plural noun: austerities
  1. 1.
    sternness or severity of manner or attitude.
    "he was noted for his austerity and his authoritarianism"
    • plainness and simplicity in appearance.
      "the room was decorated with a restraint bordering on austerity"
    • a feature of an austere way of life.
      "his uncle's austerities had undermined his health"
  2. 2.
    difficult economic conditions created by government measures to reduce public expenditure.
    "the country was subjected to acute economic austerity"

There will be no revolution or war we will simply sleepwalk into totalitarianism if we don't act now .

totalitarianism
/təʊˌtalɪˈtɛːrɪənɪz(ə)m,təˌtalɪˈtɛːrɪənɪz(ə)m/
noun
noun: totalitarianism
  1. a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state.
    "democratic countries were fighting against totalitarianism"

Does anyone at all want our children's children born into such a world .
 
Shayne said:
It's bold beyond reason , it's sad , depressing , divisive and wholly negative . But while those in charge look up for answers most of the 500 odd million people beneath them are ignored . The level of discontent can only increase because nobody can offer any alternative to austerity
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What am I missing. If you don't want austerity you vote for a party who wants to increase public spending. We have that choice already. To do that we need to collect more tax. Something like this might help, for example.

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_custo...dance-package/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en
 
Why vote when it doesn't matter a damn who goes to Brussels begging for concessions only to be ignored .

Lest we forget it was that very arrogant disregard for our leader by the EU machine that started all this .
 
Austerity is the result of greedy politicians who are raping the country's economy! (I didn't say that I read it online!)
 
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