It's a while since I had one but I seem to remember there is some good sturdy box section behind the front facade, that fits over the end of the chassis rails to mount the bumper and maybe you can cut a slot / hole in the front of the bumper to pass a tow point through, similar to what Chris drew, or loops like mine which you can get from Gwyn Lewis on ebay for less that the trouble of making them yourself?
Well Jon, you went about yours the right way, designing and fabricating it yourself. If it had gone wrong, you'd only have yourself to blame. As it turned out, you have a beautiful piece of kit, looks good and is totally functional, hats off to you for that!
My disappointment is presuming that the research has been done by ARB and that's why they're so expensive. As it turns out, ARB haven't done their homework very well (IMO) but they charge for it anyway. That's a rip-off in my book.
good point about the loops, I'm sure all is not lost!
Mine is a bought one Clive, I just modified it to get it more how I wanted it. It's a shame those loops on the ARB aren't really for recovery but I think apart from paint quality and lack of recovery points they make a good base to build on. Maybe they'd have legal problems to deal with it they sold them with recovery points?
Sorry for my confusion on the origin of your bumper Jon, I've read your thread from beginning to end, but you've done such good work on it I'd forgotten that you bought it already fabricated in the first place!
It's a shame those loops on the ARB aren't really for recovery but I think apart from paint quality and lack of recovery points they make a good base to build on. Maybe they'd have legal problems to deal with it they sold them with recovery points?[/QUOTE said:
You might have a point there Jon, although they don't admit to any limitations on their product in the sales blurb. That might get them into hotter water than the inferred recovery points that aren't, if you catch my drift!
I agree that the unit is a very good base to work on, but it's sad to think of shelling out a grand on a "starter pack"! You've ended up with a beaut, for much less money than that!
Took these pics up at Loch Lomond a couple of years back. If you look close you will see the bow shackles being used 'both ways round. OK, this is not a snatch recovery and the weight is spread over 4 shackles but is there a right way and a wrong way round? Don't know what the boat weighed but a sight heavier then a LC no doubt. Couldn't get close enough to see what the shackles were rated at but they were about 8 inches long.
Yes, but they are straps both ends so it doesn't matter. If one end was a hook, I would not put it on the pin. Two straps and you're laughing. I wonder about getting Damar to make me a simple and very short strap that will take a hook nicely in one end but go onto a shackle at the other - an stitched eye and a plain eye in other words. With my new attachment though on the end of my rope, I have done away with the hook altogether. Still handy to have though.
I think the top links will be in an appropriately sized steel eye.
Joining strops with a shackle is not good for snatch recovery? If either strop lets go,the shackle will end up flying through the air? Trouble is the only other way is to put the strops through one another,this generally ends in them not coming apart again easily. Best to use one the right length in the first place! (Ideal world of course)
Well Capt, I have two solutions for that. ! Actually I never do snatch recoveries. As good as they might be, I'm not a fan. My vehicle is strong, but his??? The other trick with the straps looped is to simply stick some rolled up newspaper or a rag in the join. Lets you get them apart. Right length strap. Indeed. Watch this space. I have a cunning plan.
Straps tend not to have much elongation though. But I have seen winch recoveries with kinetic straps in them. Ahh, now that is a catapult.
Well Capt, I have two solutions for that. ! Actually I never do snatch recoveries. As good as they might be, I'm not a fan. My vehicle is strong, but his??? The other trick with the straps looped is to simply stick some rolled up newspaper or a rag in the join. Lets you get them apart. Right length strap. Indeed. Watch this space. I have a cunning plan.
Straps tend not to have much elongation though. But I have seen winch recoveries with kinetic straps in them. Ahh, now that is a catapult.
Wise words Chris! My old Disco was more suited to recovery work than it was as a challenge truck which seemed to attract the boys with 'all the gear,and no idea'. 'can you just pull me out a minute mate?' Im happy to help anyone but it does get on your tits when you spend all day dragging out people that shouldnt have ended up where they did in the first place? Fortunately my current off roader isnt really heavy enough for recovery work,unless it Suz##i's of course but I find its easier just to pick them up and throw'em
Nice tip with the strop linking,will try it if the need arises,prefer to carry extra gear to cover all situations if at all possible.
I have to agree with a point already made, that the first option if at all possible is to fix recovery points to both chassis rails, and use a bridle. If there is a change of being bogged down in mud, then get the bridle on first. I really do not like (or trust) bumper mounted recovery points for kinetic.
I'm not convinced that my winch hook would cause damage to a 20mm+ Bow shackle pin whilst in use as the inside face of my winch hook is flat and without measuring it I would guess almost an inch across. I'd be surprised if it were to bend a shackle pin over that length! I think that your more likely to damage the strop when under load if both eyes were crammed into the pin end of a shackle and not the bow. If doing a single line pull to a tree strop I would 9/10 connect my winch hook directly to the strop eyes without a shackle, so this problem would not arise. If doing a double line pull I'd have a snatch block attached to the tree strop via a shackle, but I'd still favor putting the strop ends into the bow of the shackle and the shackle pin through the snatch block
As said already by others and I can concur that in all my years off roading thus far I've also never seen or even heard of a shackle failure or for that matter damage caused to one due to the way its been rigged. I've had them go really, really tight following a recovery and needing a good bit of grunt to get undone even after backing them off a turn or two when rigging them up, but no real damage ever.
In these photos here you can see we have a winch hook rigged a couple of ways, but the one with the winch hook on the Bow shackle pin the hook pretty much fills the gap.
Here's another example of how I've rigged a snatch block to a strop with a bow shackle and a safety strop with a clevis chain to take up the slack as we winched.
It's just what was required at the time to get the job done and if we had damaged any of the kit in the process then it would have been repaired or binned and replaced. It's not as though any of the kit we are talking about is hugely expensive.
Here's another photo of how I rigged a small change of direction using a tree strop, Bow shackle and a snatch block. Again with the strop ends in the Bow of the shackle as I feel this gives the strop the best chance of doing the job without damage.
This is of course just what I feel works best for me and when it doesn't I guess I'll look at other options, but until that time I'm still happy to connect my winch hook to a Bow shackle pin.
All this said of course I may well look at making up one or two of these for connecting my snatch blocks to a shackle pin in the future, but if I don't I'm still happy for now to connect them up straight to the pin
I scrapped a shackle last weekend Steve. That's what the point of the post was. It was a smaller shackle yes, but one still big enough for the job. There may be ways and then they may simply be better ways. That's what I am saying. But seldom do I see much evidence of thinking when I see people setting lines.
Right, I am only going to say this. I am a LANTRA winch trained and a Lorry mounted crane trained. I could tell you have I do it, but there is no right way to use the shekels, both lots of training show you it in both ways. But a D shekel should be only used 1 to 1. Also the hook goes one way for pulling and the other way for lifting.
And I used to be a crane driver Paul. But this isn't about there being a right and wrong way in relation to SAFETY which is what lifting and slinging courses are about this is to do with the practicalities of looking after tackle when it matters. I could put a hitch in a rope over a load that you'd have to cut open with a knife. It would be very safe in terms of securing the load but you'd get through a new rope every time. My point here was that if you spread the load along the pin by putting the strap at that end leaving the bow free for the hook or whatever, there is less damage and possible distortion to the pin. Less jiggling on the threads etc etc. So right and wrong way no, but better way? I think so. The bow in the shackle means that the hook should centre itself. Whereas if you put the hook on the pin, it slides back and forth and usually ends up in one corner where it can start to bend the shackle outwards. Remember that we don't do the pins up tight. I've never had a problem but I have always done it this way around. The thread was prompted by someone else rigging my line and it damaging a shackle to the point I couldn't get the b*st*rd apart. It's in the bin now.
If you are within the ratings then you shouldn't get damage I guess, but it's not a perfect world and not every recovery is text book. When desperation sets in, that's when it all goes out of the window. Shortly after that, Ian got a call IIRC
I.M.O after years working on fishing trawlers is the only safe shackle is the one you expect to snap ! same goes for ropes , straps , wires , blocks , pulleys and even steel rigging such as poles and gantries regardless of how you rig them .
The boat pictured earlier i estimate to be 10 metre in length and should weigh about 7 tonnes but lifting it presents very little danger with regards to equipment failure because it is a controlled lift and all the stresses are applied in the direction they should be regardless of which way up the shackles are used or how everything is rigged .
On boats the shackle is placed whichever way up allows for the most articulation and i'd say if you bend the pin you have exceeded the shackles limits anyway . A bent pin is the only warning you will get . I've heard it said a snapping rope won't kill a man , when a shackle snaps it fires like a missile bringing whatever rope or wire that runs through it along with it . I couldn't tell you what speed it goes but i can tell you it was fast enough to cut my shoulder length hair off just above the ear
The boat pictured earlier i estimate to be 10 metre in length and should weigh about 7 tonnes but lifting it presents very little danger with regards to equipment failure because it is a controlled lift and all the stresses are applied in the direction they should be regardless of which way up the shackles are used or how everything is rigged .
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