vegetable oil

[Ben]

due to the fact diesel is now £1.30 a litre ive been thinking about alternative fuels.

i went to macro and booker's today and purchased 120 litres of oil which worked out at 93p a litre.

which is obviously a saving of over £30 on each tank full, but id like to bring the cost down even more so ive been thinking about using waste vegetable oil.

i can get 80 litres a week for £20 from a local fast food place and have been looking into whats involved in filtering it.

i know theres a few members on here running on it, and was wondering how you go about filtering it and how long it takes?

also does anyone know how well my LJ70 will run on it? and if i can run on 100% wvo if its not too cold?

 

[Ecoman]

This is a minefiled as everyone has an opinion. But before I tell you mine I must point out that the tax free 2500ltr limit that HMRC have set on biofuels only applies to WVO (waste vegetable oil) and actual manufactured biodiesel. It does not apply to SVO (straight vegetable oil, the type straight off the shelf at tescos). If you get caught with svo in your tank and no proof of duty payment or a log to show how much taxable fuel you have put in your vehicle then it could get impounded at the side of the road and you have to pay a fine to release it. It is also up to you to provide proof of biofuel usage with a log showing fuel used and miles driven. Don't think its upto the HMRC to prove you have gone over your quota as in this case you are guilty until proven innocent. Those were, near as dammit, the exact statement told to me by an HMRC officer at a road side check.

Anyway, my opinion...lol

Don't use soya based oils as they have been proven in tests to cause damage on the engine with prolonged use. I will try and find the report if your interested.

Make sure when your collecting your waste oil you check what sort of documentation you need to carry the oil from the takeaways and restraunts. My local council require me to hold a waste handlers licence. Its free to get up here but means you and your suppliers arses is covered in the event of an investigation.

Make sure they only use veg oil and ask them to refrain from putting animal fats in the bottles as they congeal and block your fuel system (ok though if converting to biofuel as the chemical reaction willbreak them down). Filtering WVO is a simple task and a simple set up is best demonstrated by a vid on youtube. Its probably as close to the set up I had when I was filtering WVO and works very efficiently. My set up took the filtering down to 1 micron which is a bitt OTT and 5 microns is sufficient.

[youtube:qokekzwl]9n450ihBYoM[/youtube:qokekzwl]

I was running my MK4 Hilux on it for a few years (now sadly don't have the time to spend collecting and filtering). I ran it at 70% WVO to diesel most of the year. In a warm summer I ran 100% and in winter I ran 40% (or less depending on how cold it was getting) with a litre of petrol per tank to reduce the risk of waxing.

If you want to run 100% then I suggest you look at running a twin tank setup with a heat exchanger. You start on diesel and switch to veg oil when the engine has reached temperature. You only switch back to purge the system of veg oil so when the engine goes cold its not trying to start on thick cold veg oil.

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php is also a great source of information.

 

[Ben]

thanks for the reply.

so if i use the svo that ive bought first, say to cook some chips, then i should be ok to then stick it in the tank, legally speaking?

regarding the keeping a diary, is there a proper form that i can print off to fill in?

like you say it is a bit of a mine field, and theres lots of conflicting information on the net about it. the important thing for me is that i dont want to damage my engine in anyway.

yes id be interested in seeing the report if you can find it please.

if i wanted to run a twin tank setup would i be best buying a proper kit, or is it a lot cheaper just to buy the bits separately?

thanks

 

[karl webster]

Giv me a buzz one evening if you want a quick chat about it mate. 70s run well on it.
karl

 

[Ben]

will do mate, thanks.

 

[Ecoman]

Sorry for the late response. I have not been spending a lot of time on the computer of late.

Yes used cooking oil is fine. Its basically the act of filtering the bits out and driving out the moisture then classifies the fuel as "processed" or "produced". The WVO is then a refined product from a small scale production plant and then comes under different HMRC rules.

I haven't seen a form on the net but to be honest I haven't looked for one. I just kept a diary in one of those A5 notebooks. I ruled lines down the page and headed the columns: Date, Veg Oil (ltr), Diesel (ltr), mileage. Each time I filled up I filled in the date, mileage and if I filled with veg oil I wrote in approx how many litres. If I put diesel in I would fill in how many litres (rounded to the nearest litre) and keep the receipt in a box at home.

Here is that report - http://www.asg-analytik.de/Downloads/Infobriefe/Infobrief_2006_09_E.pdf Its in a pdf format so you have to wait for it to load.

The company I would have recommended for parts is sadly no more. I would hask around on the vegetableoildiesel forum and see who is around selling the parts. Be careful when buying heat exchangers as there have been some really shoddy ones. Avoid the electric or glowplug types as they are not worth the money you pay for them. Also avoid the "in tank" type ones as I have heard nightmare stories of them splitting and causing the vehicle to hydrolock. A good heat exchanger can make all the difference.

 

[Vegoil Jo]

I've been running my 2005 LC4 3.0TD on veg oil for nearly 3 years with no problems. I use a two tank system - starting on diesel until the engine warms up then switching automatically to veg oil.

I've found no difference in performance and if anything a slightly quieter engine - but that's marginal at best.

I'm keen to spread the vegoil word so I've just created a website about my experiences converting my Landy. I'd certain welcome anyone to take an interest:

http://www.vegoilcar.co.uk

Having been accused of being a Gas Guzzler on more than one ocassion, I get a kick out of being one of the greener cars on the road

 

[Ben]

I've been running my 2005 LC4 3.0TD on veg oil for nearly 3 years with no problems. I use a two tank system - starting on diesel until the engine warms up then switching automatically to veg oil.

I've found no difference in performance and if anything a slightly quieter engine - but that's marginal at best.

I'm keen to spread the vegoil word so I've just created a website about my experiences converting my Landy. I'd certain welcome anyone to take an interest:

http://www.vegoilcar.co.uk

Having been accused of being a Gas Guzzler on more than one ocassion, I get a kick out of being one of the greener cars on the road

great website, thanks for the link. Wolverhampton isnt too far from me so i might see how much there twin tank kits are.

im struggling to find a reliable source of wast vegtable oil at present, so im still using new oil which obviously isnt saving me as much as id like.

 

[Vegoil Jo]

Currently I buy my Veg Oil off the shelf at a local wholesalers - Bookers - at 80p / litre. As round here diesel is around £1.35/ltr, that's a fair saving. Previously I've bought the 3 ltr containers from Asda which, periodically, work out at 89p/ltr, but normally sit around the 99p/ltr mark.

If you can get used oil from a good source, lucky you. It's becoming increasingly difficult to obtain in my parts. My local chippies / chinese / indian restaurants, etc, all SELL their used cooking oil for 40p/ltr to a licensed company that collects it.

With the couple of experiments I have tried with used oil, there's a lot of waste. For example, in my trial 20ltrs of used eventually turned into around 12 ltrs of clean oil. So by the time you've paid for filters and worried that there's no water / chemicals / etc in the oil, and dealt with the nasty waste, I find it easier to buy off the shelf.

 

[Ben]

thats very interesting. i also buy mine from bookers but.................................................

it doesnt work out as cheap as yours. i pay £18 for 20litres of KTC vegtable oil which works out at 90p a litre.

id have thought all branches of bookers would sell items at the same price, but i guess not?

i keep meaning to contct KTC and see if i can buy from them direct. there factory isnt far from me and i could take my mates hi-lux and get a pallet full on the back.

http://www.ktc-edibles.co.uk/contact-us.php

 

[Vegoil Jo]

Next time you're in Bookers, walk straight by the KTC stuff. Browse around the place and you'll come across white and red EuroShopper boxes containing 15 one litre bottles of veg oil for around £12. It's a bit more time consuming pouring individual bottles, but it's a nice saving - coming in at approx 80p / litre

Hope that helps.

As for KTC, I once called them to see if they'd supply me. The guy I spoke to was an ignorant *$£%£!!! - didn't want to know. Downright rude and sarcastic. I wouldn't mind but I was asking for 1000 ltrs.

If you have a large empty tank and a trailer, the guys at http://www.dieselveg.com/ in Wolverhampton sell virgin cooking oil at 80p BUT only if you take 1000 litres. They don't mind you making a couple of trips, but it has to be the 1000. Shame really. If they sold it on pump, I think they'd make a killing.

 

[Ben]

thanks for that Jo should save me a few £s in bookers.

i will call KTC and see if i get the same response as you.

just had a look at that diesel veg site and im not sure if its just me being tight but the conversion kits seem expensive.

http://www.dieselveg.com/special_offers.htm

i will report back with what KTC say.

 

[spackrackman]

Interesting thread, do the shops/suppliers have any interest in why your buying the veg oil? Can you be open about why suddenly your buying hundreds of litres of oil or is it a bit of an undercover mission?

 

[Ben]

its not illegal to buy vegetable oil and run your car on it so long as you dont use more than 2500 litres a year. if you go over 2500 litres a year you have to pay fuel duty on every litre used.

i dont think there allowed to advertise it or sell it as anything other than vegetable oil intended for cooking, if they were to sell it as a fuel it would of course require fuel duty applying.

ive not had any problems buying 120 litres at a time from bookers, they dont even bat an eye lid even though thats all im buying. i guess there used to people buying vast quantities and they must know exactly what it is going to be used for.

 

[Vegoil Jo]

Ben's spot out with his answer.

Buying from a wholesaler is best because no one cares if you buy in bulk.

However you can buy retail though sometimes you get a lot of funny looks. When I've bought 100ltrs or so in Asda, I've had a couple of stroppy checkout girls say things like "We're not a wholesaler you know!" but there have been others who have politely asked why the large purchase and have been genuinely interested in the answer. But there have NEVER been any problems.

I confess though that I do get fed up with shoppers eyeballing my trolley and asking what I'm doing with so much Veg Oil. To my wife's horror I've taken to replying, "We eat a lot of chips." No one has asks furthers questions...

 

[Chas]

Ben's spot out with his answer. I do get fed up with shoppers eyeballing my trolley and asking what I'm doing with so much Veg Oil. To my wife's horror I've taken to replying, "We eat a lot of chips." No one has asks furthers questions...

I must remember that one

 

[TonyP]

.... bit of a thread resurrect here... but I have recently started to mix in veg oil into my 90 after I found 20L drums for £19 at Costco so bought 80L to "give it go" and mixed in 20L as a fist go.

Well as lots before me have discovered it works with not much issues however my reason for resurrecting this thread is to ask:
1) Has anyone using veg oil been stopped and checked by the VOSA/police, and if so has there been any consequences? ( I am keeping a log of diesel / oil use).
2) Should I be doing anything extra as far as servicing is concerned, bearing in mind I probably only do around 3500miles a year.

 

[Andrew Prince]

1. I seem to recall that for private use, you can use veg oil without any issues as far as tax goes. But there's no harm in being able to support how much veg oil you use and what mileage you do, just in case.

2. You should change, or at least check, your fuel filter, as the veg oil tends to flush all the crud from the fuel lines, which ends up blinding the filter and causing fuel starvation (potentially). I believe that this issue is only likely to present itself when adding veg oil for the 1st time or after a long interval. So you don't have to change the filter furiously every few months or anything

I'm sure the veg oil gurus (vegetarians?) will be along to give an expert view!

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Is it worth it on a car you do such low miles in? What will it save you a month £10? and have the trouble of messing with veg oil instead of just pulling up to a pump? it gets boring after a while unless you're saving a lot or at least it did for me. I think you're allowed 2500l a year for private use but shouldn't need to keep records unless HMRC tell you to.

 

[TonyP]

Jon you are correct and this is the main reason I have never ventured down this path before... at most over a year I recon it will save me probably £100 t £150... however as I was buying stuff at Costco I thought why not.... no real logic to it