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Would you surrender?

frank rabbets

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Poor Ukraine. looks like they have 2 choices:-

1. Be turned to rubble and be ruled by Russia.
2. Surrender with everything intact and be ruled by Russia.

I think I would choose 2.
 
Either way, No one will stop the Russians Or Help The Ukrainians ... Its a Shame, Its just going to be a repeat of 2013/2014....... Watch the Netflix Documentary Frank.. 'Winter on Fire'....... Also on youtube I think..... Sanctions wont Deter the Russians, And if the West stepped up ?????... Oooo! Hell to play i think..... The Ukrainians wont go down without a fight.....
 
I'm not really up on the history of the region TBH but I think, even with choice No. 2, there would be armed groups of resistance unwilling to give an inch with skirmishes potentially going on for years. My thoughts are that if the Russians invade, after weeks of saying they not going to invade, their international reputation will be in tatters. Wether they're bothered about that is another matter but if they don't and de escalate at the last minute then it's the West that will lose credibility, after they've been saying an invasion was a certainty. I guess only time will tell.
 
Poorest country in Europe's sphere , relies almost entirely on the export of grain for an income . Sanctions mean no exports and Putin wins a bread farm to which he can dictate prices , resulting in modern slavery .

As with all things commerce will be the first consideration , who buys the grain , from where could they replace it . If the options don't look good then and only then might they take the moral high ground , and what is the UN for if not to prevent a free country from being enslaved ?
 
and what is the UN for if not to prevent a free country from being enslaved ?

Countries like Russia and China couldn't give two hoots about organisations like the UN, NATO or any nation for that matter!..... for them it's all about world dominance!
 
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I hope it does not escalate. I lived through the Cuban missile crisis and then the cold war of 1965-1980. Our headmaster gathered the school together during the missile crisis and explained how serious it was. Then I was very frightened mid 70's.
 
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Well spotted i meant NATO but its all one and the same politics driven , shame America doesn't have a President who can remember his own name without auto cue . I will mention no names but lunatics recognize and are wary of each other .
 
The future of warfare and only one country in the world can produce them faster than anyone else .

 
The future of warfare and only one country in the world can produce them faster than anyone else .
That approach wouldn't have worked since the 90s

You can as much agile band movement as you like, but you can't control that many drones over hostil territory from the other side of the world. You would need local control from a manned aircraft and guess what, that's awfully susceptible very quickly.

We seem to be losing ourselves on the idea that China and Russia are some super threat. They really aren't. China doesn't even have a blue water navy yet, even when they do they lack proven weoponary and the systems to train people.

As a nation we have been at war for almost every year for the past 300 years, that sort of institutional learning, couple with the ability to innovate and create (which just isn't allowed in China, as a rule) makes us incredibly powerful. Anyone who thinks American industrial might is somehow overpowered by China also needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
 
It's a bit more subtle than old fashioned military prowess nowadays, more of long term economic displacement.
 
Poor Ukraine. looks like they have 2 choices:-

1. Be turned to rubble and be ruled by Russia.
2. Surrender with everything intact and be ruled by Russia.

I think I would choose 2.
No Frank.
Freedoms over the centuries have been earned and fought for.

The best way to deal with a bully is a smack on the chops.

You give a little, they want to take even more.
Tried and tested..
 
The future of warfare and only one country in the world can produce them faster than anyone else .

Surely a decent CIWS would take them out in seconds? One explosive round / small missile / drone detonated in the middle of that drone cloud would take 90% after all.
 
How many missiles can a CIWS shoot down?


Phalanx runs out of its ammo after approximately 1 minute of continuous firing. So assuming that it took at least 5 seconds to shoot one missile down, the maximum it can handle is probably about 12.
 
5 seconds sounds a lot, I find a source that reckoned the average time to converge fire on a target was three rounds which is a fraction of a second. If they were firing HE rounds them you'd only need a couple of hits to destroy a small drone.
 
Similar applies to ground forces as well which amply demonstrates the folly of it all
 
I hung my boots up with the British Army when I was told that I had to call a male soldier Sarah because he was ... yer what ever, I refused. I had female soldiers whom I had no problem with, but a male behaving like that was a major drain of motivation and achieving objectives. Couple that to the fact the Yanks left all that military kit behind in Afghanistan. Consider that there are now trillions of worthless paper dollars in circulation that are not worth a W**k. Sadam wanted paying in gold, as did Gadaffi. The Pound /Dollar Fiat currency is finished and worthless.
Don't forget all the South African farmers who Putin along with the Russian Orthodox Church, welcomed with open arms and are now farming away in Russia, growing food.
We are run by wet social Liberals who will let your kids fight the war. ~
Cross Dressers join the armed forces because they can for an easy wage and to make a claim. They do not join up to soldier, there is a big difference. The Russian Armed forces will not put up with this nonsense, anymore than the Chinese armed forces or The Taliban. (A major operator of Toyotas if you aint noticed).
A few sayings;-
When the money runs out, they take you to war.
If you can see the enemy, then they can see you.
Your weapon and kit was supplied by the lowest bid. (What do we make anymore and the army will not be purchasing anymore Land Rovers because the new ones are crap).
I'm not confident about this situation, apart from our submarines.
 
And guess where the current British army uniform is made ?
Yes bl%*y China......
We are knackered as a country..... successive governments from both sides of politics have sold us out....we own little of our infrastructure and they have destroyed industry....
Our armed forces ? As Odin 8 mentioned....demoralised , emasculated , underfunded and over committed with everyone of any experience leaving because they can't produce soldiers , sailors or airmen of a decent quality..... due to the woke PC brigade who have made it impossible .
Would I surrender ? nope ....I would take out as many of the enemy as possible as would my wife with her Browning .... Ukraine will be a battle and genocide very similar to the Balkans and as a female you will be better off dead....as a male also death is preferable to torture....and seeing your wife and daughters raped before you are killed .
 
An idle thought of no consequence but if i bothered investigating might it be that the most significant social changes through history were always preceded by war , usually more liberal changes but theres surely not much room to move in that direction now ?
 
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