120 Injectors: poor spray pattern / leaky. Replace or refurb

Crispin

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Folks,

Due to various screw-ups with my service, Toyota are refusing to pay for the warranty repairs. That's for another topic though as it's all in the air still.

When it went in, I mentioned the noisy engine, heavy smoking on acceleration (which is actually gone now)

They said the injectors were leaky and / or poor spray pattern. Solution: Replace all 4, (£333 each), piping (£113), gaskets + washers (£35) and the all lovely labour at £260.
The above is their "discounted" price because of the aforementioned issue. There's also Darling's cut to be added onto all that.

Because of the 120 and it's leaky injectors issue that some have, I was happy when they said they would replace. Obviously, if I have to foot the bill I sing a different tune.

Would refurbing the injector(s) work out a shed load cheaper? I suspect so. They apparently use a company in Kent, anyone know them or know of a good one.

Why would they have opted to replace the injectors instead of refurbing? I'm guessing because it was not their money but rather the warranty.

Do I need the pipes?

Is there a way, without sending them to the specialist company to tell if they are leaky / poor spray pattern? i.e. how did they (the dealer) come to the conclusion so quickly?

Cheers,
Crispin
 

adrianr

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Bob at RVS
01793 421166
in Swindon

he'll be able to tell you whats what, at least he should be.
Old school - Julian V uses him.

Good luck

I would have thought get them refurbished.
get the new ally washers (pennies)
get new leak off washers

dont know process for removing on your engine, on an 80 its pretty easy. you might need a slide hammer to help the injectors our of the head.

most new mechanics dont fix things they automatically replace. not really mechanics more like fitters really.
 

Crispin

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Thanks Adrian. I'll give him a call.

adrianr said:
Bob at RVS
most new mechanics dont fix things they automatically replace. not really mechanics more like fitters really.
True, at our expense :(
 

TonyP

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One issue with reburbing your injectors would be the time it takes to get this done, and thereby how long your LC would be off the road for, and hence you not able to commute with it :cry:
 
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Crispin

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TonyP said:
One issue with reburbing your injectors would be the time it takes to get this done, and thereby how long your LC would be off the road for, and hence you not able to commute with it :cry:

I remember reading on TLOCUK that they had a 1 day turn around. So if I shipped them on a Monday, I could have them back on Wednesday.
Biting off a shedload here but cannot stomach the very bitter cost they want to charge,
 

TonyP

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Yeah I hear you. There prices are such a rip-off. I guess if you have to you can work from home for a day or two
 

Andrew Prince

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Crispin said:
Why would they have opted to replace the injectors instead of refurbing? I'm guessing because it was not their money but rather the warranty.
They will only recommend this option is someone else is paying - that way they get their mark-up on the new parts, plus the labour charges etc. Refurbing means they only get the labour charge and minor mark-up on the work and if the refurb is faulty in some way, they have a pi$$ed off customer coming back.

Crispin said:
Is there a way, without sending them to the specialist company to tell if they are leaky / poor spray pattern?
Don't think so, you need specialist equipment to check the injector pressure etc. Do you really want to trust your assessment of the injector's state :?: :shock: For peace of mind, I reckon it would be better to let a specialist check them out - you may find that the injectors are perfect, in which case you've saved some major expense. BUT if the warranty guys will come to the party, then replace with new :twisted:
 

Crispin

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Andrew Prince said:
Don't think so, you need specialist equipment to check the injector pressure etc. Do you really want to trust your assessment of the injector's state :?: :shock: For peace of mind, I reckon it would be better to let a specialist check them out - you may find that the injectors are perfect, in which case you've saved some major expense. BUT if the warranty guys will come to the party, then replace with new :twisted:

That's my point - did the dealer just say "replace" in the hopes they were wrong. :twisted: I'll give Rob a call now.
 

Crispin

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Just given Bob a call. Nice chap, sounds like a wise ol' man.

He knew of the 120 and the leaky injector bits. Unfortunately, he says in most cases with common rail, he can test the injectors but cannot refurbish them :(
The old ones, I'll put a new nozzle on them and they'll do whatever you want them to


He did say if I get the injector number (IIRC these are only printed on the side of the injector) he can look an see what he can source them for. To get the number I need to take them out.
If I have them out, I might as well send them for testing?

What are the symptoms of a poor spray / leaky (dripping?)?
 

TonyP

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So really it has come full circle. You think the injectors have a issue because Toyota said so, but based on what. They clearly did not test these, so prob took the safe route (and profitable one) by suggesting getting them replaced.

How much PT is it to get the injectors out? I would imagine a few hours labour for us 'puter folk. Is it worth it... hmm maybe in the long run to avoid any potential failures :shock:

What would I do... well I have a habbit of buring my head in the sand and pretending the issue is not there, however this is not my LC. I wonder if it's worth getting a 2nd point of view on this from a good indi (not that I know any in our area)
 

Crispin

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IIRC, from the other thread, it's inter-cooler off, rocker cover off injectors out. Well, that's highly summarised but that's the point.

There's obviously no way to test them while in the engine so any indi will probably do the same?

The fact that a few people have commented on how noisy mine is vs other 120s does not help. :(

I think I'll stop moaning and just give it a bash. Take the injectors out, check the state of the washers and send them for repair. Maybe Mr Rubie can source a cheaper injector(s) £300 cheaper? :lol: :lol:
 

TonyP

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Well if you are going to go and take them out then it may be worthwhile getting them replaced. What's the cost associate with testing them?
 

Gary Stockton

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Have you gone and looked up the relevant part numbers and dropped Ian R a mail for a quote?
 

Ian Rubie

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Crispin said:
Solution: Replace all 4, (£333 each), piping (£113), gaskets + washers (£35) and the all lovely labour at £260.
The above is their "discounted" price because of the aforementioned issue. There's also Darling's cut to be added onto all that.

Hi

PM sent. Your dealer is having a laugh at your expense - discounted price my ar*e!!

Ian
 

Crispin

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Thanks Ian. :)

I called my local dealer (dealt with the parts manager before, nice chap) and he also does them at £333 excl so they are a rip off all round.
 

mjw1999

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Re: 120 Injectors: poor spray pattern / leaky. Replace or re

Thought i would revive an old thread and ask where this all ended up crispin?
 

Crispin

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Re: 120 Injectors: poor spray pattern / leaky. Replace or re

Nothing really.

A couple other dealers I've spoken to were unsure (read: they thought it was not possible) about telling spray pattern without removing them.

Based on that and the fact that my engine has not yet gone back after 40k miles, I'm kinda happy with it as it is. (maybe it's the 42k I'm waiting for ;) The injector seal thing also seems to be a non-issue for me as per clean oil-pickup

The local Denso agent would test them for me (4 day turn around) at £50 ex-VAT. If the tests failed then there is nothing you can do to clean / fix 'em. New injectors required.

I'm now at the "I could be chasing spooks for a long expensive time or just wait for it to go pop and buy a shiny 150 :D" stage
 

AndrewT

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Re: 120 Injectors: poor spray pattern / leaky. Replace or re

My injectors went at 43k I had two that the compensation valve was out, and one had leaking seals. which had lead to a slightly dirty oil pick up. I think caught in the nick of time.

My toyota garage offered exchange injectors at £275, but that is the price of them. You also need to know if you take one out you need to replace the seals, they are like compression fittings, use once.

Also if you swap the injectors you need to put the 16 digit calibration code into the management system, for them to work properly.

finally the new injectors are a new pattern to those that were fitted on the vehicle, so this problem should not re-occurr

My advice is accept they are duff, accept they are expensive, and get your car fixed properly.
 

Crispin

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Re: 120 Injectors: poor spray pattern / leaky. Replace or re

Thanks Andy, is that an Irish number? Anyone care to call?


AndrewT said:
My injectors went at 43k I had two that the compensation valve was out, and one had leaking seals. which had lead to a slightly dirty oil pick up. I think caught in the nick of time.
What were the symptoms? (other than oil pickup) What made you check.


AndrewT said:
My advice is accept they are duff, accept they are expensive, and get your car fixed properly.
Not bad at the price you paid but not dealer I have spoken to offers an exchange service and only want to sell new at £400 a pop. Our very own Mr Rubie can source them for a lot less but still steep when you multiply by 6.
 
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