1990 Land Cruiser 70 series SWB - clutch not fully disengaging

FJM

New Member
I am in new_zealand
Jul 22, 2020
9
2
3
Hello.

I’m hoping to get some help and suggestions in regards to an issue I’ve been having with my truck that’s seeming very hard to isolate and fix.

Please note: the issue is intermittent. It doesn’t occur every time. Usually about one in every three times.

When I’m driving and start to slow down (day for traffic lights), I’ll change down through the gears. When I get to second gear and change into it, often, when I come to a complete stop in second gear with my foot fully down on the clutch, the truck will still want to drive forward slowly and the clutch remains partially engaged. It’s the same if I change into first gear at a slow speed, stop and hold my foot on the clutch in gear - the truck revs lower and if I take my foot off the brake, the truck creeps forward slightly as if it’s still in gear with the clutch not fully disengaged.

What then happens is because the truck is still in gear with the clutch semi-engaged, taking it out of gear is hard. I literally have to force it into neutral. Then putting it into first gear is almost impossible. It’s incredibly hard to put into first as the clutch must still be partially engaged. When I finally get it in gear, it won’t creep forward until I take off, drive and then slow down and change down through the gears again. It’s as if something isn’t aligned properly when I take it out of gear, and putting it back into gear is a real challenge.

I’ve taken it to my mechanic twice. They’ve removed the master and slave cylinders, overhauled both with new seals/ sleeves. The re-fit, flushed and bled the system and checked for adjustments. They then road tested and couldn’t find fault. I took the truck back and it did the same issue the same night. I then took it back the next day. They re-bled it again to ensure no air was left. They then again road tested and couldn’t replicate the issue I’m having. I’ve now got it back and for a second time, the truck still remains doing the same issue.

The issue is intermittent. It doesn’t do it every time which is why it’s so hard to replicate. It’s as if sometimes the clutch fully disengages, and other times it won’t. It seems to only occur when changing down through the gears. When it creeps forward, taking it out of gear is a real struggle when it’s creeping and then putting it into first gear is even harder (even double clutching etc).

I’m at a loss as what to do next. I’m not a mechanic so am taking advice from others. I just want the issue fixed as clearly it’s frustrating to drive and force it into gear, and also to pay $800.00 already for no solution.

Thanks so much.
 

goodoldboy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2010
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I would be looking at the thurst bearing & the fork.This is inside the bell housing so it would mean dropping the gearbox.
 
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FJM

New Member
I am in new_zealand
Jul 22, 2020
9
2
3
In neutral does pushing the clutch down make a noise?
No. No apparent noise or changes. The only change that’s noticeable via ear is when it’s in gear with the clutch pressed, and trying to creep forward, it revs lower as it’s trying to move forward. If I take it out of gear with the clutch down, the revs increase. This would be expected though as it’s what all manual cars do when you release the clutch slightly with your foot still on the brake.

There’s no apparent noise when simply pressing and releasing the clutch (the clutch itself or engine).

I’ve got it going back to the mechanic tomorrow morning, so any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 

FJM

New Member
I am in new_zealand
Jul 22, 2020
9
2
3
I would be looking at the thurst bearing & the fork.This is inside the bell housing so it would mean dropping the gearbox.
I’ll pass this onto the mechanic tomorrow when I drop it back. As I say, I’m not a mechanic (wish I was now!) so any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks heaps.
 

sonic

New Member
I am in australia
Apr 5, 2020
18
5
3
Brisbane
Hi FJM. A couple things that come to my mind:
- check if the slave cylinder travels all the way and also check that the slave or mastercylinder is not leaking through when you have pressed the pedal. when you press the pedal your clutch should disengage. if the fork travels back, it means you still have a leak internal.
if thats not the case, you probably have to pull te gearbox out.
- a faulty or bent chlutchfork could be an issue?
-clutchplate/release bearing? i replaced my chlutch on my 75 series with an aftermarkt exedy clutch and had issues like squeek and shatter afterwards. I stick to original parts since then... my 2 cents

let us know what you find out
luka
 
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FJM

New Member
I am in new_zealand
Jul 22, 2020
9
2
3
Thanks heaps for the advice. She’s booked in tomorrow morning so I’ll make sure the mechanic knows all these pointers. I don’t mean to undermine their knowledge, but I’ve taken it in twice and had no traction on the issue. Just hoping it’ll be resolved.

I’ll post an update tomorrow night for sure.

Cheers.
 

FJM

New Member
I am in new_zealand
Jul 22, 2020
9
2
3
Thanks again for all the suggestions.

It went back to the mechanics. They couldn’t find any issues or replicate the creeping that I’d explained. They almost implied it was due to my driving technique (bullshit). I then went for another drive with one of the mechanics and the truck creeped twice. Once with me driving. Once with him driving. They’ve now come to the conclusion it needs a new clutch (what I suggested...).

They quoted me $3,500.00 for a standard clutch/ $5,700.00 for a dual mass clutch. Prices in NZ dollars. This seems bloody steep to me so I’ve been getting quotes from different workshops the past few days. Just waiting to hear back from them all.

Does anyone know a rough/ fair price that I should be paying? I’d assumed somewhere in the $1,000.00-2,000.00 range.

I’ll post another update when it gets the replacement done and as to whether it fixed the issue.

Cheers.
 

goodoldboy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2010
1,077
407
83
That to me sounds like a huge amount of money in euros! have they explained exactly why it needs a new clutch ? what you've described doesn't sound like a clutch on the way out - is there any slipping under load ? at the risk of pointing out the obvious a clutch is engaged until you press the pedal & yours isn't disengaging properly.Try pricing up the spares & then you can work out how many hours they are hoping to book for labour.What are they charging an hour ?
 
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Shayne

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Guru
Feb 2, 2013
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The clutch needs to come out for diagnosis so they are charging you for replacement whether it needs replaced or not and it seems very unlikely to me you need a new one given you have the opposite symptoms of a worn clutch .

Find a new mechanic .

Canada dollar is about 60p whatever that is in eu funny money .

Edit :- i been looking at buying a pair of Canadian boots :doh: NZ dollar is about 50p
 
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FJM

New Member
I am in new_zealand
Jul 22, 2020
9
2
3
That to me sounds like a huge amount of money in euros! have they explained exactly why it needs a new clutch ? what you've described doesn't sound like a clutch on the way out - is there any slipping under load ? at the risk of pointing out the obvious a clutch is engaged until you press the pedal & yours isn't disengaging properly.Try pricing up the spares & then you can work out how many hours they are hoping to book for labour.What are they charging an hour ?
Yeah I thought the $ sounded steep. I've emailed 5 other mechanics in town asking for quotes, so I have some comparison.
The whole job was priced at $920.00 NZD for labour.

No slipping unde load. There's no other abnormal issues (the clutch itself feels fine etc). The only other issue is how tricky it can be together it into/ out of gear, but this is to be expected the clutch isn't fully disengaging with the pedal pressed fully down. I assume when it's fixed this issue should go away also.

Thanks for the advice.
 
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FJM

New Member
I am in new_zealand
Jul 22, 2020
9
2
3
The clutch needs to come out for diagnosis so they are charging you for replacement whether it needs replaced or not and it seems very unlikely to me you need a new one given you have the opposite symptoms of a worn clutch .

Find a new mechanic .

Canada dollar is about 60p whatever that is in eu funny money .

Edit :- i been looking at buying a pair of Canadian boots :doh: NZ dollar is about 50p
Yeah I agree. They need to remove and inspect it first. The prices was for a full replacement, but that may not need completing depending on the issue when they inspect the internals. I've emailed 5 other workshops asking for a quote of the work as it seems bloody unreasonable. I'll update the situation next week when it goes in for further work. Cheers.
 
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goodoldboy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2010
1,077
407
83
nice one Kiwi glad that we've been able to contribute.If the gearbox is dropped for investigation it's a good idea to replace the clutch plates & thrust bearing as a matter of course as the cost of parts is small compared to labour.
 

iwan_t24

Well-Known Member
I am in wales
Mar 28, 2011
1,446
760
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Mid Wales
I gather that you've already fitted a new clutch etc.. once when I fitted a new clutch, the rod between the clutch fork and the hydraulic cylinder was a tiny bit too long which gives the drag that you describe.

With the engine not running go underneath the truck and check that the clutch fork then the rod and slave cylinder has just a little free play, if it's tight then the rod may need just a slight shorten. Just so you can like rattle the rod then there's no tension on the rod..

It might be the problem..
 
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FJM

New Member
I am in new_zealand
Jul 22, 2020
9
2
3
Updating this topic.

After I got quotes from various mechanics, the prices ranged between $2,700.00 upward. I wasn’t too sure if the truck had a solid or dual mass flywheel as the old owner wasn’t aware of the conversion had been done.

I went with a local shop that quoted $2,700.00 one of the mechanics knows land cruisers well so I was pleased for him to do the job.

They ended up finding the conversion already completed (dual to solid). They had the old flywheel machined and replaced all other components.

The truck drives like a million bucks now. They said they couldn’t find any specific fault that was causing the creep, but replacing the components has fixed the issue. No creep and the gear changes are much smoother. There’s no forcing it into gear or any rough changes. The first mechanic basically blamed my driving for the issues and said the gearbox is on its way out (which is bullshit). The clutch has solved all the issues.

Thanks again for the advice. It appears replacing the internals even with no specific fault found has fixed the issue. Something must have been untoward, but I’m stoked it’s all running again.

Cheers.
 
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