Don't like the adverts?  Click here to remove them

80 series 1993 swivel hub

Rob Klohs

New Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
6
Country Flag
australia
Hi Guys,
I have replaced my front wheel bearings and hub grease and axle seals a few times with no issues. Recently I went whole hog and replaced the axle seals, wheel bearings and swivel bearings as well. as most would know, replacing the swivel bearings means removing the steering arms from both sides. All this went like clock work - took a bit to break the ball joints so I could remove the arms - but all good (zero freeze works a treat). After pulling it all down I cleaned everything of dirt and muck so they looked like new. I reinstalled everything including putting the shims back in the arms where they came out of (original factory placement). Did a steer pull load test and all good. Put everything back together then went for a drive - all good. Locked the freewheel hubs in and went for another drive around 10k. All good - no leaks. Did a trip out in the bush (In 4WD) got home and the next day I see diff oil dripping from both sides of the steering arm securing bolts. Nothing huge, but enough to drip on the tyre and wet the studs and nuts. Checked for tightness - all good, the studs had not stretched. Decided to replace the axle seals again to be sure. Old seals still had energiser spring in place and no wear or damage to seals - sealing area on both axles is very good - no wear. I'm a Fluid Power engineer and trades fitter so I know what is and isn't any good when it comes to seals). The breather was a bit clogged, so it may have pressurized the housing, Anyway, I replaced the seals and all OK. Yesterday I got home from work and stuck my head under the front to have a quick squizz. Lo and behold - leakage in the same spot. it looks to be coming out between the base of the hub and the steering arm on both sides. I think it maybe just left over weep age - has anyone seen this before.
 

Chris

Super Moderator
Supporter
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
17,509
Garage
Country Flag
europe
Rob, I'm not sure I have an answer to this. I'm very familiar with the procedure and you sound like you've made a good job of it. Stripping back to basics, you have oil in your axle and grease in you hub. The only way to get oil leaking out of anywhere on the hub is via the axle seal. Hmm, could it be old oli finding its way out? Well it all depends how thoroughly you cleaned it all up.
Yes a blocked breather can most definitely push oil out especially as is summer down there in Ozland. The only other thing really is excessive wear in the seal faces on the shafts themselves. Were they nice and level / smooth where the inner seal sits?
 

Firewout

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2014
Messages
837
Garage
Country Flag
belgium
Too much play in the bronze bush?
pca1004.jpg
 

Chris

Super Moderator
Supporter
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
17,509
Garage
Country Flag
europe
It's a thought but the CV isn't really supported by the bush. It's effectively held up by the splined section on the end of the outer flange. The bush is a sort of sacrificial bump stop. Now if there was excessive wear there AND wear in the splines on the CV and flange splines, you might have something there. It would have to be a lot of flex to actually get the seal to allow oil past though.

Now we don't have FWH on our 80s here in the UK so that splined section might be slightly different and allow for additional droop and wiggling of the shaft in that bush area due to wear. The bush when it does wear, tends to wear oval from top to bottom. It can be replaced or turned through 90 degs
 

IRLGW

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2011
Messages
1,060
The only way oil gets from inside to outside is via the seal. As Chris said you may have wear on the shaft. It could also be that the inner casing has been damaged during seal removal. Look for nicks and burrs with the seal removed. Did you use OEM seals or aftermarket? You need to tolerance check everything. Also it's not brake fluid by any chance?
 

David

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Joined
Dec 28, 2012
Messages
1,533
Garage
Country Flag
great_britain
Also it is very easy to nick a seal putting a shaft in, done that myself and it was a way more expensive seal the a Cruiser one
 
Don't like the adverts?  Click here to remove them

Chris

Super Moderator
Supporter
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
17,509
Garage
Country Flag
europe
For anyone else reading in here, that a really important point. Use what you like on the vehicle but when it comes to inner axle oil seals it HAS to be genuine all the way.
 

IRLGW

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2011
Messages
1,060
For anyone else reading in here, that a really important point. Use what you like on the vehicle but when it comes to inner axle oil seals it HAS to be genuine all the way.
Thanks for reminding me! I should never have used those mitsibushi stamped seals milners sent...
 

David

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Joined
Dec 28, 2012
Messages
1,533
Garage
Country Flag
great_britain
Pretty much with any oil seal on anything genuine is always the way to go
 

Chris

Super Moderator
Supporter
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
17,509
Garage
Country Flag
europe
You did WHAT????

Go and stand in the corner.
 

Rob Klohs

New Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
6
Country Flag
australia
Rob, I'm not sure I have an answer to this. I'm very familiar with the procedure and you sound like you've made a good job of it. Stripping back to basics, you have oil in your axle and grease in you hub. The only way to get oil leaking out of anywhere on the hub is via the axle seal. Hmm, could it be old oli finding its way out? Well it all depends how thoroughly you cleaned it all up.
Yes a blocked breather can most definitely push oil out especially as is summer down there in Ozland. The only other thing really is excessive wear in the seal faces on the shafts themselves. Were they nice and level / smooth where the inner seal sits?
Thanks for your reply. I have a feeling it is old oil moving thru the lower swivel bearing. The only thing I didn't check when I replaced the seals the first time around was the breather hose and check vale. I did this before replacing the seals the 2nd time. When i did pull the stub axles off the 2nd time there was no oil in the hub, so I'm thinking it was residue. The sealing area on the axles is OK - no wear or seal grove that would require attention. It's not running out, and I'm not concerned about it. I re-checked the diff oil level and that is just below (about 5 - 10mm below top level). The fact that my hubs were not full of oil sort of indicates old seepage. And yes, they are Toyota seals. Being in fluid power I know I can get better ones. They are not a high quality seal. I could go to a viton (FKM) seal (original are Nitrile) but Viton is harder and has a tendency to grove the running surfaces over time, but they are better for higher heat applications like shaft seals.
 

Rob Klohs

New Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
6
Country Flag
australia
The only way oil gets from inside to outside is via the seal. As Chris said you may have wear on the shaft. It could also be that the inner casing has been damaged during seal removal. Look for nicks and burrs with the seal removed. Did you use OEM seals or aftermarket? You need to tolerance check everything. Also it's not brake fluid by any chance?
Thanks for the reply. But no wear or grooving on axle sealing area at all. Cleaned out area where seal sits and dressed out all sharp edges. New seal went back in how it should. and yes - original seals. I may change that in the future and use Viton (FKM) seals and size correctly and use a better product. Like I said, I'm a Fluid Power engineer and the original seals are not very high quality and they are nothing out of the ordinary. replacing OEM seals is something we do on a daily basis. After all - TOYOTA do not make seals - they get them from the same place we do. Seal manufactures like Hallite and such. and no - it's not brake fluid.
 

Rob Klohs

New Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
6
Country Flag
australia
Also it is very easy to nick a seal putting a shaft in, done that myself and it was a way more expensive seal the a Cruiser one
Good point. That's why you should check the length of the axle - not just the running surface.
 

Rob Klohs

New Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
6
Country Flag
australia
It's a thought but the CV isn't really supported by the bush. It's effectively held up by the splined section on the end of the outer flange. The bush is a sort of sacrificial bump stop. Now if there was excessive wear there AND wear in the splines on the CV and flange splines, you might have something there. It would have to be a lot of flex to actually get the seal to allow oil past though.

Now we don't have FWH on our 80s here in the UK so that splined section might be slightly different and allow for additional droop and wiggling of the shaft in that bush area due to wear. The bush when it does wear, tends to wear oval from top to bottom. It can be replaced or turned through 90 degs
That is a point I've considered. As you know, removing things can upset a perfect 'wear' balance and expose something that wasn't there before. I live in Alice Springs and Landcruiser's are everywhere, so advice and opinions abound - but no one could give a firm response as to this one - just lots of maybe's. If the sterring arm studs and nuts get covered in mud and dirt then that tends to act like a seal so you don't notice any wetting - but one has to ask ones self - why is the dirt sticking to that area. Cheers
 

Chris

Super Moderator
Supporter
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
17,509
Garage
Country Flag
europe
Just to clarify on OEM seals here for others. I am sure that there are better quality seals out there but her in the UK in particular we have a choice of either originals or really cheap nasty seals that we KNOW fail. Genuine ones last a good long time so what we'd say is as a minimum fit OEM but if you've something better then sure go ahead. There are some seals available from the US that claim to be the dog's doodhas, but other reports say they increase shaft wear. They are designed to flex much more and follow the shaft's oscillations without leaking. So far though we've no actual first hand evidence. So, we fit OEMs.
 

IRLGW

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2011
Messages
1,060
I think the shaft material property has as more to do with the bearing material than the available bearing material. Like any seal/bearing it is sacrificial so it doesn't wear the shaft and start a crevice...but hey I'm no fluid engineer..
 

chapel gate

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Promoted Company
Joined
May 26, 2014
Messages
4,237
Country Flag
england
I think the shaft material property has as more to do with the bearing material than the available bearing material. Like any seal/bearing it is sacrificial so it doesn't wear the shaft and start a crevice...but hey I'm no fluid engineer..
Don't think it works like that.
"Softer" materials often wear away hard materials.
Steal isn't a great wear material. Iirc the softer material can become abrasive by picking up oxides from the harder material.
Or something like that...
 

Rob Klohs

New Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
6
Country Flag
australia
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all your input.
I found the problem - bad breather check valve. I removed the hose and valve assembly from the breather point on the axle housing and ran a new hose up into the engine bay and now use a pneumatic exhaust silencer in place of the check valve. Now it can both positive and negative breath. I will be doing this to all the breather points. Make it much safer for water crossings as well. I believe that the check valve spring is too high of a rating to be a successful component considering that industrial gearbox breathers have a much softer spring. Very cheap nasty component. As a note, if you guys ever need seals or the like then head to your nearest hydraulic repair center.
 
Top