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A/C Issues - HELP!
- Thread starter David Killough
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This is true. For some reason I was thinking that the TEV was in the engine bay but of course it isn't. It would need corrosion to weaken it, which is possible, combined with extra high pressure at that point could cause a leak. Depends how thick the pipe wall is or how the expansion valve is mounted I suppose.
David Killough
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Thanks for all the input guys. We ran out of internet for a day and then have been running around town taking care of some stuff. Unfortunately for me, where we live I don't have access to eBay, Amazon or the like. We have to make due with what we have available to us, and as newbies in a town where everything is done through relationships, we're still paying the school fees of learning.
That being said, I'm in complete agreement with you all regarding the valve, which is why I kept the original one. The A/C guy brought a vacuum and pressurized the system, then regassed it after he changed that little valve. It held gas just fine, but the clutch wasn't engaging. We hot-wired the compressor to make sure it was working, and it worked just fine. We reconnected the little grey plug and everything seemed to work perfectly. That is until the next day when I went turned the LC on and the A/C wasn't working again.
I called the guy back and he came by yesterday. He did the hotwire trick again and noticed that the A/C clutch was engaging slowly at first. We turned the engine off, he sprayed some WD-40 on it and let it sit a bit, then turned the engine on with A/C off. When we turned the A/C at the dash, it engaged without any problems.
He seemed to think that some grime had built up behind the clutch because of the dusty roads we'd been driving which was preventing the clutch from engaging properly. Once it was cleaned out a bit, it engaged without any problems.
My thought is, could the freon escape via the A/C clutch? When he had the gauges connected, it system held the pressure for around 15 minutes with no signs of leaking.
Either way, I'm happy the A/C is back up and running. I've got a trip this weekend to get a 1 year temporary import permit for my Cruiser at the border, and it gets nice and hot in the Cunene province of Angola.
That being said, I'm in complete agreement with you all regarding the valve, which is why I kept the original one. The A/C guy brought a vacuum and pressurized the system, then regassed it after he changed that little valve. It held gas just fine, but the clutch wasn't engaging. We hot-wired the compressor to make sure it was working, and it worked just fine. We reconnected the little grey plug and everything seemed to work perfectly. That is until the next day when I went turned the LC on and the A/C wasn't working again.
I called the guy back and he came by yesterday. He did the hotwire trick again and noticed that the A/C clutch was engaging slowly at first. We turned the engine off, he sprayed some WD-40 on it and let it sit a bit, then turned the engine on with A/C off. When we turned the A/C at the dash, it engaged without any problems.
He seemed to think that some grime had built up behind the clutch because of the dusty roads we'd been driving which was preventing the clutch from engaging properly. Once it was cleaned out a bit, it engaged without any problems.
My thought is, could the freon escape via the A/C clutch? When he had the gauges connected, it system held the pressure for around 15 minutes with no signs of leaking.
Either way, I'm happy the A/C is back up and running. I've got a trip this weekend to get a 1 year temporary import permit for my Cruiser at the border, and it gets nice and hot in the Cunene province of Angola.
David Killough
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Dave,
I've got some brake cleaner. I'll be sure to run that through there as well to make sure it stays clean and free of dust. Thanks for the tip mate!
Are you in southern Spain?
I've got some brake cleaner. I'll be sure to run that through there as well to make sure it stays clean and free of dust. Thanks for the tip mate!
Are you in southern Spain?
In 12 years of ownership I've never needed to clear dust from the clutch (and spraying a lubricant on a clutch filled me with horror) I would check the gap with a feeler gauge, should be 20 thou. Anything more and it may be that there's insufficient magnetism to attract it and the small voltage drop through the controls versus the direct 'hot wire' is the difference between it pulling in and not.
The gas can escape from the shaft seal, this is why it is recommended to run for 15 mins a week minimum to keep everything supple and well oiled.
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This did cross my mind Dave, regarding the environment and fine dust. It was a hurried post… never the best kind. A good dousing with brake cleaner would be a good idea. Better still remove the clutch plate with a 10mm socket BEING CAREFUL NOT TO LOSE THE SHIM WASHER that sits on the end of the shaft, and give the clutch plates a darn good clean with brake cleaner.
Any leakage from the compressor shaft seal is either absorbed by a felt pad or ejected past the clutch plates to the front of the clutch.
Any leakage from the compressor shaft seal is either absorbed by a felt pad or ejected past the clutch plates to the front of the clutch.
David Killough
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Great stuff guys. I'll admit, I was a bit hesitant when the A/C guy said to spray penetrant on the A/C clutch as I would never spray ANY kind of lubricant or penetrant on my transmission clutch, so I thought the same thing about my A/C clutch. Still, I was in a bit of a bind with no working A/C and was open to suggestions. When it worked and he explained that the lubricant broke the grease and grime down and the centrifugal force of the pulley moving removed the loosened grime, it made sense. Still, the brake cleaner sounds like a much better idea, and a proper clean by taking off the front plate is a good idea.
Would I need to pull the belt off to do this or could I leave it all setup and just pull that plate off, clean with brake cleaner and check with the feeler gauge?
Would I need to pull the belt off to do this or could I leave it all setup and just pull that plate off, clean with brake cleaner and check with the feeler gauge?
^^^^
This this thread reminds me of the 'tricks of the trade' years ago.
A slipping clutch due to crank or gearbox seal leaking was easily sorted, the 'guvnor' would have someone hold down the clutch pedal, and would spray carbon tetrachloride through the clutch release arm hole in the bell housing, this used to get between the friction surfaces and wash the oil out, good for at least a couple of weeks.
Another known bodge, to get old cars through the MOT, the boss would instruct the body shop guys to fill the sills of rusty cars with rolled up newspapers, old paint brushes and anything else that would pad it out, a nice lob of 'pudding' body filler, after T break a quick coat of brush on under seal job done!
Those were the days.................
regards
Dave
This this thread reminds me of the 'tricks of the trade' years ago.
A slipping clutch due to crank or gearbox seal leaking was easily sorted, the 'guvnor' would have someone hold down the clutch pedal, and would spray carbon tetrachloride through the clutch release arm hole in the bell housing, this used to get between the friction surfaces and wash the oil out, good for at least a couple of weeks.
Another known bodge, to get old cars through the MOT, the boss would instruct the body shop guys to fill the sills of rusty cars with rolled up newspapers, old paint brushes and anything else that would pad it out, a nice lob of 'pudding' body filler, after T break a quick coat of brush on under seal job done!
Those were the days.................
regards
Dave
No need to take the belt off to remove the clutch plate. Did I say DONT LOSE THE WASHER that is inside the splined socket that fits over the shaft. It may stay stuck to the shaft or in the clutch plate socket that has just come off the shaft due to magnetism. If you can, put some low strength studloc on the 6mm boot into the end of the shaft when you put it back.
David Killough
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Copy that StarCruiser. Will do it tomorrow. I just got back from my 4 day road trip and the a/c clutch was acting up again. I found that if I just took the handle end of a rubber mallet and slightly tapped the a/c clutch while the a/c was turned on and engine running, it would engage and we'd have cold air again.
I was able to find some brake cleaner (thought I had some but it was contact adhesive!) and sprayed the a/c clutch with engine off and then turned it on and it flung out a lot of black junk. I sprayed it while running too and it threw out more black junk. I think the best course of action is to pull that clutch plate off and try to save things. Still, I'm going to have one of my buddies bring me a new a/c clutch from South Africa. I think the magnetism may slowly be fading, especially if this is the original clutch. That would make it about 21 yrs old!
I'll let you know how things go tomorrow =)
I was able to find some brake cleaner (thought I had some but it was contact adhesive!) and sprayed the a/c clutch with engine off and then turned it on and it flung out a lot of black junk. I sprayed it while running too and it threw out more black junk. I think the best course of action is to pull that clutch plate off and try to save things. Still, I'm going to have one of my buddies bring me a new a/c clutch from South Africa. I think the magnetism may slowly be fading, especially if this is the original clutch. That would make it about 21 yrs old!
I'll let you know how things go tomorrow =)
The magnetism doesn't fade DK, not for what is needed here anyway. It will be gap setting that is the issue. The thing is, why has it got bigger? I think it was Frank that had the bearing slip on the nose of the compressor. It's probably worthwhile taking the belt off, it's easy, a 14mm socket to slacken the nut in the centre of the idler, then undo the nut in the top of the adjuster to lower the pulley.
Reason for doing this, after you take the clutch plate off, you can check the pulley and bearing for correct fit and lack of significant movement. If there is any wear it will show up on the nose of the compressor. If your bearing is slack and rotating, and you've caught it early enough then you may be able to save it. Well worth the look.
Reason for doing this, after you take the clutch plate off, you can check the pulley and bearing for correct fit and lack of significant movement. If there is any wear it will show up on the nose of the compressor. If your bearing is slack and rotating, and you've caught it early enough then you may be able to save it. Well worth the look.
This is a classic on many compressors. Either the seal at the nose of the compressor starts to leak and the oil causes the clutch to slip, and rubbish accumulate, or other work on the engine has allowed oil/dirt rubbish to get in there. The use of WD40 will simply make it worse. The brake cleaner you are spraying in is cleaning out the rubbish (assuming you do not have a Freon leak). I would spray it with the engine OFF and let it run through or dismantle as per Starcruiser.
Also given the evidence of the first AC guy's incompetence, and unsure who re-gassed it but, is possible there is too much Freon in there. Having said that, the electromagnet is normally powerful enough to overcome that, and the fan belt (when set correctly) slips causing a screeching noise, if you have had to tighten the belt excessively then there is too much Freon in there causing the compressor to lock.
I would follow Starcruiser on this, dismantle and clean, it is possible you may need a thinner washer between the clutch and pulley if the air gap is too large, given there has been a lot of slippage this may now be the case?
regards
Dave
Also given the evidence of the first AC guy's incompetence, and unsure who re-gassed it but, is possible there is too much Freon in there. Having said that, the electromagnet is normally powerful enough to overcome that, and the fan belt (when set correctly) slips causing a screeching noise, if you have had to tighten the belt excessively then there is too much Freon in there causing the compressor to lock.
I would follow Starcruiser on this, dismantle and clean, it is possible you may need a thinner washer between the clutch and pulley if the air gap is too large, given there has been a lot of slippage this may now be the case?
regards
Dave
The way the clutch is constructed doesn't allow any fridge oil escaping from the shaft seal to contaminate the clutch. It first has a felt pad close to the shaft seal to mop up any small leaks, then an inner, externally lipped ring that protrudes past the clutch surfaces and spins in a similar internally lipped ring on the outer clutch plate. Any major leakage would show on the outer most face of the clutch plates as radial lines where it is flung out from the spinning clutch beyond the friction faces. Clever I thought. 
David Killough
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And this is why it's so critical to belong to a good forum! I'll pull off the clutch plate and then the belt this afternoon. We only have the one vehicle so I'm hoping I can rectify this all with just a good clean of the air gap. I sure hope the bearing on the compressor is good.
I did have the whole cruiser looked over by Johann "JB" Meyer in CapeTown about 2 months ago. For those that don't know him, he's the Julian Voelker of Africa. People here call him the "Cruiser Whisperer". He did a major service, put on new belts, would have checked all the accessory bearings while doing so and said everything was in good shape. So here's hoping things haven't changed!
I did have the whole cruiser looked over by Johann "JB" Meyer in CapeTown about 2 months ago. For those that don't know him, he's the Julian Voelker of Africa. People here call him the "Cruiser Whisperer". He did a major service, put on new belts, would have checked all the accessory bearings while doing so and said everything was in good shape. So here's hoping things haven't changed!
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If the air con was working he would not have taken the clutch apart to clean it. If you can get the A/C to work have a look at the pulley when it is spinning. With A/C pump not engaged you should see the pulley spinning evenly. When the A/C pump engages the pulley MAY start to spin off centre. If this happens it means that the clutch bearing has failed and or, more likely, it has come loose and worn the aluminium nose of the pump body. This can wear the clutch plate so best to check. It happened to me and I have a magic video of it on my computer but can't post it for some reason.
To take apart the clutch you have to loosen and remove the belt then grip the outer clutch plate with large pair of grips otherwise it will turn and you won't be able to undo the bolt. The clutch plate should just pull off but may be stiff on the splines. Don't loose the little shim washer. So best to put a clean towel underneath in case it drops. Then put it up the tube with some grease when reassembling to hold it in place.
To take apart the clutch you have to loosen and remove the belt then grip the outer clutch plate with large pair of grips otherwise it will turn and you won't be able to undo the bolt. The clutch plate should just pull off but may be stiff on the splines. Don't loose the little shim washer. So best to put a clean towel underneath in case it drops. Then put it up the tube with some grease when reassembling to hold it in place.
David Killough
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He never pulled off the A/C clutch to clean it, just pulled off the belts to check bearings and then replaced the belts with new ones. The A/C was working just fine then.
In regards to the pulley spinning off center, I've not observed the pulley wobbling when the A/C is engaged or disengaged. Neither have I heard any noise from the compressor bearing or A/C clutch bearing as would be typical when a bearing starts to go.
Still, I'll give it a good look over here soon. Thanks for the info! =)
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Let us know how you get on. More knowledge the better. I used to dread A/C problems but enjoy them now.
