A/C Issues - HELP!

[Dave2000]

The design to keep the oil from getting in to the clutch is good but not perfect I 'm afraid. It does a great job but does not stop the fan blowing it back into the workings. I have seen Freon 'flicked' around the engine bay, makes a mess, I would strip and clean as per above and hopefully call it done.

regards

Dave

 

[StarCruiser]

Ahh, yes, hadn't considered the force 9 gale factor…

 

[Anas]

hi there
my car is an Dubai export and it had all of the compressor seals and o rings leaking but not that piece there is an easier way of finding a leak which they use here and that's soup and water and going around all of the pipes and compressor and stuff and that's of course after pressurizing the system with air

 

[StarCruiser]

hi there
my car is an Dubai export and it had all of the compressor seals and o rings leaking but not that piece there is an easier way of finding a leak which they use here and that's soup and water and going around all of the pipes and compressor and stuff and that's of course after pressurizing the system with air

I hope that was dry air Anas, nitrogen is normally what is used. Often fluorescent dye is added which can be viewed where there's a leak without soap bubbles.

 

[Anas]

I hope that was dry air Anas, nitrogen is normally what is used. Often fluorescent dye is added which can be viewed where there's a leak without soap bubbles.

yep it is dry air that we use here its because we are behind you for about a hundred years and we haven't got any dyes that could be used that's why we use other stuff like soup and water to detect any leaks it's not 100% accurate but at least you can get it fixed before buying a new compressor or pipes

 

[StarCruiser]

Then dry air and soapy water is a perfectly acceptable way of finding a leak. It all depends on molecular size. R134a has a very small molecule that can leak out, sometimes through hoses. If you test for leaks with a gas with a larger molecule, you may not find the leak.

 

[David Killough]

Well, I had a good look at things today. I started the engine with the A/C off and the A/C pulley was turning true. It continued to do so with the A/C turned on as well. As suggested before, I then pulled off the cover, which on my compressor was connected to part of the A/C clutch plate. It was fairly dirty, and well used so I cleaned it well and set it aside.

The compressor side of the clutch was filthy and required a lot of brake cleaner and cleaning. I then loosened the pulley belt and checked the bearing. There was movement that was hardly noticeable and shook the vehicle more than anything. Enough to make me feel like the bearing is fine. I then put some copper grease on the thread cover and on the bolt and reassembled it all. I looked carefully for the shim mentioned earlier, but never found one. Not sure what the story is there.

There was some oil/grease in the center of the hub, not sure if that is normal or not.

I've attached two photos for your critique and thoughts. Both are from pre-cleaning.

 

[StarCruiser]

What you see in the centre of the lower photo is refrigeration oil (Pag 46) and fluorescent dye. This is indicating that you have quite a definate leak on the shaft seal. All that in the centre needs cleaning out with brake cleaner, however it won't cure the leak.

From that photo also, the clutch friction material is beginning to break up and fall away.

I would say that you need a new compressor to give you any chance of a reliable AC system. If parts were easy to come by I would say to replace the shaft seal and the clutch, however these would probably be tricky to obtain and in the case of the shaft seal tricky to change but available. Either way, I think that is beyond a simple cleaning though you could give it a thorough clean and monitor it to see how you get on. At some point, seconds, hours, weeks, months, who knows, your compressor WILL run out of oil and seize if all the oil leaks from the shaft seal.

Can you take a photo of the back end of the compressor and post it here? That should help identify it.

The washer would have been up the splined 'spout' that fits on the shaft, shown in the top photo. It may have remained in there.

The central screw should not have received copper grease on reassembly. As mentioned earlier it needs to not come undone and has a locking compound applied. It should go back with low strength studloc (loctite) to prevent the bolt coming loose and the clutch plate falling off.

 

[frank rabbets]

As SC says.

Sometimes just replacing the seal does not cure the problem because rust has crept up the shaft and gone under the seal so damaging the steel where the seal sits.

 

[David Killough]

Ugh... SC, I was hoping against hope... The A/C is blowing quite cold and is engaging/disengaging quite well right now, but you confirmed the suspicions I did not voice...

When I saw that green tinged oil, I had a feeling the seal was going and may be the source of my leak.

So, I won't be able to get a new compressor & clutch until my buddy comes up from SA. That's another month away. If I'm correct, leaving the A/C turned off will keep the compressor bearing disengaged and only the pulley bearing will be turning. Am I correct?

SC, when you say take a photo of the backside of the compressor, do you literally mean the back of it facing the firewall?

Thanks again everyone.

 

[StarCruiser]

Ugh... SC, I was hoping against hope... The A/C is blowing quite cold and is engaging/disengaging quite well right now, but you confirmed the suspicions I did not voice...

When I saw that green tinged oil, I had a feeling the seal was going and may be the source of my leak.

So, I won't be able to get a new compressor & clutch until my buddy comes up from SA. That's another month away. If I'm correct, leaving the A/C turned off will keep the compressor bearing disengaged and only the pulley bearing will be turning. Am I correct?

SC, when you say take a photo of the backside of the compressor, do you literally mean the back of it facing the firewall?

Thanks again everyone.

I wouldn't say 'don't use it' but to monitor it. Clean it well, run it for a week, check it again. If it looks ok and is running well, give it two weeks, then a month and so on. You clearly need AC and if it's running and cooling well then monitoring it is the way to go until you can get a replacement compressor. If it seized it's in the bin, if it lasts till its replaced, it's in the bin so you may as well use it. If you get a sudden screeching then just shut off the AC and disconnect the plug on the top of the compressor next time it's convenient to do so.

If you also monitor your sight glass above the left hand (drivers view) battery while it is running well, you should get to see what is going on inside. No bubbles and it's working well, the system is fully charged, some bubbles, or varying amounts of bubbles is ok. You will start to see more bubbles as the refrigerant level drops away, indicating the need for a top up and some oil.

Seeing just how little oil was left in my system, probably no more than a thimble full in the entire system, as long as there's some oil in there you should be ok. It's just difficult knowing how much is in there, so add some oil whenever it's topped up.

Yes that's the photo needed. Opposite end to the pulley SHOULD be the location of a label. Clean off the label and that will tell you what compressor you need. Then it's good luck finding one.

 

[David Killough]

SC,

I've been monitoring the glass where the freon runs through to look for bubbles. I generally do that during recharging and the days following to check for leaks. The freon runs clean with no bubbles at all.

I'll do as you've said and keep cleaning/monitoring the clutch plates. I need to clean the compressor shaft really well as I left the oil on it. I've also got some loc-tite, so I'll clean the bolt and put some of that on instead.

Attached is a photo of the compressor tag. Is it the same as yours?

 

[StarCruiser]

It's close, my compressor is a 10pa 15c. Unsure of the difference but unlikely to be significant I would imagine.

The 447200 1713 will be the actual number of the whole thing, clutch, top plate, the lot.

My original shown below

I found and fitted one for a John Deere tractor. Wrong fixings (I wasn't paying attention) top plate and pulley (I knew this and planned to swap these over).

 

[David Killough]

Used one off a John Deere? Wow! I'm guessing Denso made compressor's for more than Toyota's then. Whatever there is available second hand in this country is likely fried already. I'm just hoping I can get something reasonable out of SA.

 

[StarCruiser]

Used one off a John Deere? Wow! I'm guessing Denso made compressor's for more than Toyota's then. Whatever there is available second hand in this country is likely fried already. I'm just hoping I can get something reasonable out of SA.

Agreed, anything used is likely going to have some problems really. It would be prudent to change the shaft seal and O rings, which is why I got mine brand spanking new off Ebay from a fridge company in Germany. Had I not missed that the front fixings were further forward, it would have bolted straight on with only a pulley swap.

Nippon Denso (Denso) make all sorts of things for all sorts of customers and generally make them very well indeed. A bit like a Japanese Bosch if you like.

 

[Ian Chuter]

SC. have you got the John Deere part no. For the one you bought?

 

[StarCruiser]

SC have you got the John Deere part no. For the one you bought?

No, but it was this one on EBay.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310894515265

It's a Sanden Denso, identical in all respects bar the pulley and top plate adapter. That's if you miss that the fixings are further forward of course.

And the good news is, it's now vacuumed out well, gassed up and leak free according to a brand new leak detector. The aforementioned receiver drier fitted but was 20mm shorter and was painted black.

Happy days

 

[StarCruiser]

If anyone getting the John Deere compressor wants the brackets made up I can get a price together for those and the bolts and possibly the belt as a kit.

 

[Ian Chuter]

Looks like there are a couple of options of John Deere part no. In the eBay ad. I'll have a look on Monday at work to see if it's a common uk part and a price.

 

[StarCruiser]

Looks like there are a couple of options of John Deere part no. In the eBay ad. I'll have a look on Monday at work to see if it's a common uk part and a price.

Worth a look Ian. It'll be interesting to see if they're a good price. I thought the price from Germany was really good given the quote I had to rebuild mine. I now have the poly vee pulley and coil spare if there's a JD tractor needs one