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Aircon struggling
- Thread starter Bat21
- Start date
I'm here! I wondered where everyone had gone.
About your a/c, now.
It is probably low on gas, especially at this age. It needs toget the evaporator down to 3/4 deg before it will cycle the compressor. If it doesn't get that low, then it won't cycle. With the old R12 systems you can use the sight glass to see if refrigerant is moving through, usually with a few bubbles at start up and when cycling. It should cycle all the time the a/c button is pushed, regardless of temperature setting. It could be the thermo switch that sits on the evap is broken, but then you'd get cold air for a while, at least until it freezes over, the the airflow will be blocked. With the fridge only, it uses the fridge thermostat to cycle the compressor, but when the a/c is switched on, the control reverts to the evap temp switch. The other area is the changeover valve for the fridge, but as it's clicking then it's probably ok. It may be that it's not allowing gas to the evap, but the computer thinks it is and is waiting for the evap temp to drop.
Wait until a warm day, run the a/c up while looking in the sightglass with a torch. If there's no visible liquid moving through it, then it's low or there's a blockage somewhere. Check to see if the drier's getting cold, as these sometimes block causing the gas to expand (and get cold) there, instead of at the restricting valve in the evap.
You may get away with the magic in a can replacement gasses, but they're a pain in the rear normally, and are at best a (not so) cheap fix that will come back to bite you at some time, and you probably won't have to wait long.
Best is to convert to R134a, spend a little cash to do it properly, then you have a system that can be maintained in the future. You probably also have a leak somewhere, which even if not visible now, will probably show itself fairly quickly.
If you speak to John at Aircare, he can swap the drier over, change the charge ports, change the oil, add some dye, then gas it up and see what happens. Just be aware that at 17 years old, there are leaks just waiting to happen, so further work may be required down the line. I dealt a lot with John a few years back, and assuming he's still going, he's one of the best in the business. He usually does other work in the winter, but give him a call, tell him I sent you, and he'll fix up up without fitting you up.
About your a/c, now.
It is probably low on gas, especially at this age. It needs toget the evaporator down to 3/4 deg before it will cycle the compressor. If it doesn't get that low, then it won't cycle. With the old R12 systems you can use the sight glass to see if refrigerant is moving through, usually with a few bubbles at start up and when cycling. It should cycle all the time the a/c button is pushed, regardless of temperature setting. It could be the thermo switch that sits on the evap is broken, but then you'd get cold air for a while, at least until it freezes over, the the airflow will be blocked. With the fridge only, it uses the fridge thermostat to cycle the compressor, but when the a/c is switched on, the control reverts to the evap temp switch. The other area is the changeover valve for the fridge, but as it's clicking then it's probably ok. It may be that it's not allowing gas to the evap, but the computer thinks it is and is waiting for the evap temp to drop.
Wait until a warm day, run the a/c up while looking in the sightglass with a torch. If there's no visible liquid moving through it, then it's low or there's a blockage somewhere. Check to see if the drier's getting cold, as these sometimes block causing the gas to expand (and get cold) there, instead of at the restricting valve in the evap.
You may get away with the magic in a can replacement gasses, but they're a pain in the rear normally, and are at best a (not so) cheap fix that will come back to bite you at some time, and you probably won't have to wait long.
Best is to convert to R134a, spend a little cash to do it properly, then you have a system that can be maintained in the future. You probably also have a leak somewhere, which even if not visible now, will probably show itself fairly quickly.
If you speak to John at Aircare, he can swap the drier over, change the charge ports, change the oil, add some dye, then gas it up and see what happens. Just be aware that at 17 years old, there are leaks just waiting to happen, so further work may be required down the line. I dealt a lot with John a few years back, and assuming he's still going, he's one of the best in the business. He usually does other work in the winter, but give him a call, tell him I sent you, and he'll fix up up without fitting you up.
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BobMurphy
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Bat21 said:The problem is, if I PM Dave and then point him to this thread (so I don't have to type it all out again), that knob of an admin will throw a hissy fit
You too . . . I've had my knuckles rapped for referring to this site as well
Bob.
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Dave, many thanks for the definitive reply.... makes a lot of sense 
I think the way forward is to go for the conversion/recharge first as there appears to be more 'bubbles/froth' than fluid moving through the sight glass when she's running.
I forgot to mention, the latter end of last year I had to do a major engine rebuild. This meant the pump was sat at a strange angle tied to the inner wing for almost 2 months.. maybe this caused it to get upset.
I'll keep you posted on progress.
Welcome to the new(er) site by the way... tiz a much friendlier place to be
I think the way forward is to go for the conversion/recharge first as there appears to be more 'bubbles/froth' than fluid moving through the sight glass when she's running.
I forgot to mention, the latter end of last year I had to do a major engine rebuild. This meant the pump was sat at a strange angle tied to the inner wing for almost 2 months.. maybe this caused it to get upset.
I'll keep you posted on progress.
Welcome to the new(er) site by the way... tiz a much friendlier place to be
i'd give you the name of the guy who refilled and converted mine, but i dare say he's a bit far away.
The leak on mine was a o ring where the pipes attach to the condenser. Tell tale was the condenser was a bit oily round this area and indeed when he put the leak detector in, bubbles came out there.
He changed that, filled with r134a and some oil and now the system is working fine and making ice in the cooler box again.
The leak on mine was a o ring where the pipes attach to the condenser. Tell tale was the condenser was a bit oily round this area and indeed when he put the leak detector in, bubbles came out there.
He changed that, filled with r134a and some oil and now the system is working fine and making ice in the cooler box again.
Ecoman
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I took mine down to the so called specialists in Aberdeen today to get it recharged. After 10 minutes of faffing around he let a load of the old R12 gas out and said he was going to fill with something else. It was then that it dawned on him that he doesn't have an adaptor to fit the existing couplings. I took the 80 off him before he could do any damage. Now instead of a cold blast I get tepid air coming through 
I thankfully rang a grown up who runs his own business doing this stuff. He was recommended by the garage that does all my servicing and MOTs. I'm booked in on Sunday morning to get the whole system looked at and a recharge
I thankfully rang a grown up who runs his own business doing this stuff. He was recommended by the garage that does all my servicing and MOTs. I'm booked in on Sunday morning to get the whole system looked at and a recharge
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He did whatEcoman said:
It's the old R12 stuff that makes holes in the sky and lets the rain in, it's supposed to be sucked out and put in bottles 10" thick and buried 500ft underground for a 1,000 years...... or something like that.
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Found a local chap who can do the job for us, myself and SilverLady here.
Aparently there is a gas that can be used in an R12 system without the need to drain all the mineral oil from the system first, the problem is it is sold in 14kg bottles at £300 The Land Cruiser's will only need about 1kg each but, the guy is happy to go halfs with us and store the remainder + £35 per truck.
So for £220 (£110 each) SilverLady and I should end up with fully recharged systems
Aparently there is a gas that can be used in an R12 system without the need to drain all the mineral oil from the system first, the problem is it is sold in 14kg bottles at £300
The Land Cruiser's will only need about 1kg each but, the guy is happy to go halfs with us and store the remainder + £35 per truck.So for £220 (£110 each) SilverLady and I should end up with fully recharged systems
The stuff you're talking about is usually just a mix of R134a and propane/butane, which is used to move the old mineral oil. It has to be charged as a liquid as it separates out, and if you have a leak, the propane/butane will leak first. Also, if you have a problem you are then stuck with someone that wants to recover the stuff, and there aren't many of those around.
The other problem is the old material used in the drier can break up with R134a, and contaminate the system. Much better to do a proper swap, change the fittings and change the drier. Would cost about £130 I guess. Then you have a 'current' system that can be serviced anywhere.
'Drop in' replacements are just a cheap fix, and don't usually last long. There are only 2 approved refrigerants, R12 and R134a. R12 has gone, so better to stick with R134a - also, it isn't flammable.
The other problem is the old material used in the drier can break up with R134a, and contaminate the system. Much better to do a proper swap, change the fittings and change the drier. Would cost about £130 I guess. Then you have a 'current' system that can be serviced anywhere.
'Drop in' replacements are just a cheap fix, and don't usually last long. There are only 2 approved refrigerants, R12 and R134a. R12 has gone, so better to stick with R134a - also, it isn't flammable.
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Thanks again Dave, so it sounds like a bad idea going for this optionDaveN said:
The problem is, I don't know anyone that could do a proper swap. I wouldn't even know where to get a dryer from other than Toyota... or the fittings for that matter.... or how to drain the old mineral oil out
might be r413a? that's what the first guy (well technically second as the first was the toyota dealer who assured me it was not a problem until they had a look at it) was going to put in mine. He called me a day before he was due to come and said the last of his had leaked and a new bottle was around the £300 mark so he wasn't coming.
r12 is not available in the uk, but it is available elsewhere. Americans buy theirs in mexico or new old stock from ebay. I believe if you are in eastern europe it is also available. I had considered going down this route, but i found the guy who just used the r134a stuff. He didn't change the element and said wait a year and see if it holds, then i can come and change it.
No idea where he was going to get the dryer element from, shall maybe give him a ring closer to summer.
r12 is not available in the uk, but it is available elsewhere. Americans buy theirs in mexico or new old stock from ebay. I believe if you are in eastern europe it is also available. I had considered going down this route, but i found the guy who just used the r134a stuff. He didn't change the element and said wait a year and see if it holds, then i can come and change it.
No idea where he was going to get the dryer element from, shall maybe give him a ring closer to summer.
