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Cyclists

Rob Cowell

Well-Known Member
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Nov 15, 2011
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wales
http://www.cyclingweekly.com/videos/watch/watch-cyclists-pulled-police-riding-two-abreast

You may already have seen this. I wonder what people think? I used to ride a bike a lot on the road. Because I now do all my riding with a 7 year old we try to stay off them, and I have to say when we do need to be on the road so far motorists have been very considerate.

The policeman here seems mostly wrong to me. He tells them it's against the law to ride two abreast. It isn't. He tells them they are causing other drivers to drive carelessly, which is possibly the most absurd statement I've heard from a professional driver. The highway code says you should (not must) switch to single file when the road is busy, which is open to pretty wild interpretation. I don't think it's wrong for the policeman to advise the cyclists he thinks the road is busy, but he makes such a hash of the rest of it my opinion of his opinion is severely diminished.
 
I agree with you Rob, IMO, the Officer may have had good reason to ask the riders to be more considerate, but he can't support such a "request" by beating the book and reference to the law.

I'm no lawyer, but I'd be hard pressed to accept that there was any law breaking going on, or any infringement of the Highway Code.

It's like chastising a motorist for doing 30 mph in a 40 mph limit.

Again, IMO, motorists the world over have developed a "race" mentality to driving, considering they have a right to go faster than the vehicle in front, and not a responsibility to wait for the right moment to legally overtake, in a safe manner.

As you have experienced, many cyclists these days try to avoid driving on the road simply for this reason, and for the same reasons, cyclists protested (in my cycling days in the '60s) against cycling lanes, because it was seen to promote the diminishing right of cyclists to use the public highway, the "thin-end-of-a-wedge", as it were.

IMO, the Officer's attitude and approach was all wrong in this video, he should have been polite and requested cooperation, due to the circumstances. One of the duties of an Officer is to diffuse and avoid disputes, not to create them.
 
I can only assume anyone who is even remotely surprised by the officers attitude or performance has never actually encountered the police going about their usual business .
 
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Riding in a pack of about 10 cyclists on the road (2 abreast, up to 5 bikes long) is worth about 10% more speed over 30km, and that continues for a while as you increase distances. What it allows is a rotation of riders through the group; if we get it right on the return 15km on my twice a week rides, you can end up only doing 1.5km tops on the front of the group as you rotate through - that position at the front is the hardest spot to be in as you're breaking the wind for all those behind.

Also riding in a line 10 bikes long is about 30m... 2 abreast it's 15m long - which is easier to overtake as a driver? OK you can't squeeze past, but if that's all you can do, was it really the best place anyway?! The other thing is that on tight left hand bends, you (as the cyclist) are more visible being out from the kerb as the outermost rider.
 
Roads are a shared space and we all have to compromise at times

Judging by the large queue of backed up traffic that overtakes after a couple of seconds delay once they're pulled over, there wasn't much compromise from the two abreast cyclists
 
Roads are a shared space and we all have to compromise at times

Judging by the large queue of backed up traffic that overtakes after a couple of seconds delay once they're pulled over, there wasn't much compromise from the two abreast cyclists

I don't think so. From the time that they stopped completely to the time that first van passed was 6 seconds. At the 30km/h they where travelling at means they were covering 8.3 meters per second. 6 seconds at that speed gives nearly 50 meters or 164 feet. I don't think any body would be following a cyclist with that kind of gap if they can't over take.
 
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I don't think so. From the time that they stopped completely to the time that first van passed was 6 seconds. At the 30km/h they where travelling at means they were covering 8.3 meters per second. 6 seconds at that speed gives nearly 50 meters or 164 feet. I don't think any body would be following a cyclist with that kind of gap if they can't over take.


Well I don't want to get into an argument, especially when none of us has the full story, but I don't think that's right. The gap was because they were being followed by the unmarked police car with its blues and twos on that came to a stop behind them. The traffic behind was naturally cautious about overtaking

A large stream of overtaking traffic is visible whenever the guy pans his helmet cam enough not to be blocked by the police bike, compared with the completely empty road ahead of them in the first few seconds

They appear to me (and the cop) to have been holding up a big queue of traffic. It's not a drivers vs cyclists issue, it's about selfish behaviour. By slightly modifying what they were doing, everybody could have got on with their day instead of having an arbitrary speed limit of less than 20mph imposed on them. It's not the crime of the century, but I'm glad they got a ticking off
 
The gap was they were being followed by the unmarked police car . The traffic behind was naturally cautious about overtaking

Fair point :)

It still is quite a large gap though so it's difficult to tell if that was the case. I would be no less than 3 car lengths behind the police bike which is still only half of that distance. I'm thinking without seeing it it's kind of impossible to call it one way or the other.
 
Fair point :)

It still is quite a large gap though so it's difficult to tell if that was the case. I would be no less than 3 car lengths behind the police bike which is still only half of that distance. I'm thinking without seeing it it's kind of impossible to call it one way or the other.

It's hard to be certain of anything based on that video, but I would say that several interpretation of what was going on are possible. In at least one of the possible interpretations, the cops are justified in pulling the cyclists over and having a word
 
If they were holding up traffic there is an offence for that. However the police don't enforce it for caravan, tractors, lorries or land rovers. If there's more than 10 vehicles behind you, you are obliged to pull over and let them past.

Police man on the bike was still a dick and does it really need a bike and an unmarked car to deal with such a minor issue?
 
Right or wrong bother or not the law is supposed to work for the greater good of all , he could have leveled up alongside them and said come on lads have some consideration .

Respect is a two way deal - you give none you get none .
 
over here in Frenchy land, the Velo is king! Motorists will pass at least 1.5m away. However, get on a horse and your a target! They dont slow down, move over and even toot their horns for you to get the heck out of the way! Gladly I dont ride hosses, but wifey does.
 
over here in Frenchy land, the Velo is king! Motorists will pass at least 1.5m away. However, get on a horse and your a target! They dont slow down, move over and even toot their horns for you to get the heck out of the way! Gladly I dont ride hosses, but wifey does.

On that theme, cyclists here don't exist. Well they do of course, but the average motorist will treat it as though they don't.

On a bike you need eyes in the back of your head, elbows, knees and a couple on your arse would be useful, it's a nightmare. My road riding days are over, and I'm glad in a way, it's bloody dangerous.

In the U.K. In the 60s, it was a very pleasant sport, we used to do 12 hr club time trials in a small pack of about 6, and I can boast 200 miles on several occasions. It was as safe as houses, only aching legs to worry about :lol:.
 
Well I will throw my 2 cents in if I may. The typical cyclist's in the UK and Spain are arrogant, rude, selfish and downright bloody dangerous!! The authorities have been quick here to put up signs stating that motorists have to give 1.5 metres space when passing, what they have forgotten to tell the cyclists is:

Do not isolate yourself from other traffic by wearing ear/headphones.

Do not jump traffic lights.

Do not weave left and right in front of traffic.

Make way when causing a queue, there are plenty of opportunities to pause for a moment and allow the cars/trucks or whatever to pass.

Do not ride side by side chatting and ignoring the fact that, for the motorist to pass you legally (1.5 metres), would put him on the other side of the road and facing oncoming traffic, which invariably means they cannot pass the cyclist safely.

They should not be taking photographs with their phone or using it whilst riding.

Do not wear black as they are invisible in the shadows during bright sunlight.

They should have lights fitted and use them at night.

I will pause there to give my blood pressure time to come down.

Below are two incidences of complete and utter stupidity by these selfish bastards.

Driving for Hovis when I was a temp driver, I come across a gathering of drivers in the yard pointing to the rear of a lorry, there was some fingers caught in the slot of the tail lift guide, apparently a cyclist must have been hanging on to the rear of the lorry for a free ride up a hill, the lorry turned and unbeknown to the driver the cyclist lost most of his hand!

Second incident, I was in London and traffic was very heavy, I was driving an 'eight legger' off road tipper lorry (yeh 12 wheel drive!). Traffic was moving/stopping and then repeat, I had seen a cyclist working his way through the traffic, and then he disappeared, I guessed he mounted the pavement and had moved on?

It was as I was about to pull away I caught a glance of him in the mirror UNDER my lorry, he had ducked under and was between the front four steering wheels and the eight rear wheels! The plan was simple enough, he would push his cycle along until I had passed the van that was in the other lane and he would duck out and continue.

Thirty two tonnes will f*ck you up good and proper, and if I had run him over and killed him who picks up MY pieces?

That was it for me, the typical cyclist out for a few hours fresh air and exercise no longer exists, he or she dons a plastic crash helmet and automatically gains an invisible shield, along with the attitude that nothing short of a ballistic missile will harm them.

There is one thing I would point out in case anyone thinks I am a cyclist hater, I have driven many times through Amsterdam where cyclists are in huge abundance, NEVER ONCE did I need to be concerned that at any moment one of them was going to carry out a reckless manoeuvre risking their own lives.

I'm done!

Regards

Dave
 
Well I will throw my 2 cents in if I may. The typical cyclist's in the UK and Spain are arrogant, rude, selfish and downright bloody dangerous!! The authorities have been quick here to put up signs stating that motorists have to give 1.5 metres space when passing, what they have forgotten to tell the cyclists is:

Do not isolate yourself from other traffic by wearing ear/headphones.

Do not jump traffic lights.

Do not weave left and right in front of traffic.

Make way when causing a queue, there are plenty of opportunities to pause for a moment and allow the cars/trucks or whatever to pass.

Do not ride side by side chatting and ignoring the fact that, for the motorist to pass you legally (1.5 metres), would put him on the other side of the road and facing oncoming traffic, which invariably means they cannot pass the cyclist safely.

They should not be taking photographs with their phone or using it whilst riding.

Do not wear black as they are invisible in the shadows during bright sunlight.

They should have lights fitted and use them at night.

I will pause there to give my blood pressure time to come down.

Below are two incidences of complete and utter stupidity by these selfish bastards.

Driving for Hovis when I was a temp driver, I come across a gathering of drivers in the yard pointing to the rear of a lorry, there was some fingers caught in the slot of the tail lift guide, apparently a cyclist must have been hanging on to the rear of the lorry for a free ride up a hill, the lorry turned and unbeknown to the driver the cyclist lost most of his hand!

Second incident, I was in London and traffic was very heavy, I was driving an 'eight legger' off road tipper lorry (yeh 12 wheel drive!). Traffic was moving/stopping and then repeat, I had seen a cyclist working his way through the traffic, and then he disappeared, I guessed he mounted the pavement and had moved on?

It was as I was about to pull away I caught a glance of him in the mirror UNDER my lorry, he had ducked under and was between the front four steering wheels and the eight rear wheels! The plan was simple enough, he would push his cycle along until I had passed the van that was in the other lane and he would duck out and continue.

Thirty two tonnes will f*ck you up good and proper, and if I had run him over and killed him who picks up MY pieces?

That was it for me, the typical cyclist out for a few hours fresh air and exercise no longer exists, he or she dons a plastic crash helmet and automatically gains an invisible shield, along with the attitude that nothing short of a ballistic missile will harm them.

There is one thing I would point out in case anyone thinks I am a cyclist hater, I have driven many times through Amsterdam where cyclists are in huge abundance, NEVER ONCE did I need to be concerned that at any moment one of them was going to carry out a reckless manoeuvre risking their own lives.

I'm done!

Regards

Dave

That was good vent Dave, you must weigh at least a kilo less than when you started!

Can't fault what you say, much as I love(d) cycling and motorcycling, there's so many fools on the road these days, it's impossible to single out anyone who's faultless.

Bikers, with or without an engine, have only themselves to blame for animosity against them.

JMHO
 
  • "never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends"
That is a quote from rule 66 of the HC. I cycle to work everyday albeit a short ride with hardly any main road work but all I would say is that cyclists would do well to remember who will come off worst in the event of a collision irrespective of who is in the right and who is in the wrong. I would NEVER ride 2 abreast on a busy main road like that. JMO
 
Don't pedestrians/cyclist have right of way over engines any way? The same as rowing boat has right of way over a Sailing boat which has right of way over a motor boat

Slight aside as well but I always thought an 8 legger had 4 axles, 8 wheels on the ground. Hence 8 legger, Surely at most they can be 8x8
 
  • "never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends"
That is a quote from rule 66 of the HC. I cycle to work everyday albeit a short ride with hardly any main road work but all I would say is that cyclists would do well to remember who will come off worst in the event of a collision irrespective of who is in the right and who is in the wrong. I would NEVER ride 2 abreast on a busy main road like that. JMO

That is the problem with the highway code, it has RULES and LAWS, for example, bus drivers see a rule that says 'Allow a bus to pull out....IF safe to do so' (or something like that).

I had a bus driver quote it to me when he nearly hit my old Jag, I pointed out it was a rule as opposed to a law and I was already alongside him. I then pointed out that one of his headlights were out, and also a brake light, I suggested his bus was illegal and he should park up and transfer his passengers to a legal vehicle, his answer "No chance, I am running late as it is". Aha I declared, hence the reason for cutting me up, he was in a hurry and f*ck everyone else.

I might as well have been talking to a brick wall.

regards

Dave
 
Don't pedestrians/cyclist have right of way over engines any way? The same as rowing boat has right of way over a Sailing boat which has right of way over a motor boat

Slight aside as well but I always thought an 8 legger had 4 axles, 8 wheels on the ground. Hence 8 legger, Surely at most they can be 8x8

I see your logic but they are known as an eight legger, the rearmost axles with each pair of wheels seen as one leg but 12 wheels actually providing tractive effort.

regards

Dave
 
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utterly agree with dave.

riding two abreast should be made illegal.

there are some cracking country roads around here that in the last couple of years have become popular with cyclists. these roads are not over busy but they are fast roads and carry a lot of heavy traffic, ie big tractors and quarry lorrys. the road also has a lot of dips and blind summits. these self righteous morons think its perfectly acceptable to ride more than two abreast whilst no doubt chatting about lycra, heart rates and the after ride latta... completely oblivious to the fast track towing 7 tons of silage that's about to have to make a dangerous maneuver to avoid mowing down the lot of them, and who would get the blame if the lot of them are mangled all over the front of the tractor..

roads are not for playing on.

I'm a mountain biker, I hate going on the road, when we have to we stay as close to the curb as we can, and have our wits about us.

if you don't like the grids and pot holes get a proper bike..





#braces self#
 
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