D4D troubles

[mike hatton]

Hello Chaps!

I've recently acquired a 2001 d4d (thanks Mum and Dad!). It's taken the job of bus for now with the Mighty Isuzu still dealing with the tough stuff.

It's developed a temperamental problem soon after starting where it looses all power and dies. It takes a lot of cranking to get going again then runs like there's nothing wrong. It needs to be left for over an hour for this to be a problem.

I suspect it may be an air leak on the fueling or bleed back but all the hoses look fine and I've changed the filter. Is there any usual places that cause troubles?

It's taking longer than I'd expect to start too, at least 2 full turns to get going, is this usual?

Thanks,

Mike.

 

[jbecks]

do the D4Ds have a hand primer on top of the filter? or do they use an electric fuel pump?

If they still have a hand primer, before you start the engine press the pump a few times, if its firm to press initially you don't have a leak in your fuel system, but if you have to pump it a few times you probably have air getting into your fuel system and the most likely place is at the fuel tank. You could take of the fuel feed pipe to the filter and then connect a rubber hose onto the filter and place it into a jerry can of diesel, prime the system and see if you have the same issue.

When the car starts does it kick out alot of grey white smoke?

 

[mike hatton]

Thanks,

There's no smoke when running or cranking. I'll try priming before I start to see if it makes any difference.

Given that it runs for about 40 seconds before stalling I'm thinking the problem is going to be local to the injector pump. I'd think a bubble would take a little longer to move through if it was on the tank side of the filter?

Weirdest thing is that it doesn't do it if left overnight???

 

[jbecks]

that it runs for 40 seconds then stalling could mean there is air getting into the fuel system, have you checked for fault codes? So it does not do it if left over night? but it will stall after starting if you leave the car for an hour or so after switching it off? if so that rules out air getting in the fuel system imo.

 

[grantw]

Could it be a fuel filter that needs replacing?

 

[Shayne]

Fuel can't burn without air and it costs nothing to remove your air filter , its unlikely to help in your case but but still the simplest things are often overlooked . Doubt the D4D has the same fuel pump as a 1KZ-TE but it is likely to have its own filters so it might be worth checking Beau's thread about pump servicing as it might at least show you what to look for . If your convinced its an injector problem i personally would spend a few quid on Wynns injector cleaner fuel additive before getting the spanners out - it can't hurt and you never know .

 

[sae70]

Some years back a chap I knew had trouble starting his truck when left overnight, but once started would then be fine to start for the rest of the day and then again the next morning it would be a bitch to start again. This turned out to be an air leak on the fuel system and was a poorly fitting fuel filter seal that was allowing the fuel to drain back into the fuel tank when the truck was parked on his slopped drive overnight. This would seem to be the opposite of the trouble that your having Mike and so hope it's help you rule this out maybe

 

[mrdelmonti]

Have you checked the earth strap?

 

[mike hatton]

Hello all,

Thanks for your replies...


I have changed the fuel filter which made no difference, the car is dosed with millers diesel additive each fill. Today I primed the filter before starting then continued to prime after starting, it still cut out but started much quicker afterwards... could be on the right track. I'm sure I could hear a squeaky bubbling noise from close to the injector pump whilst priming so I'm going to remove all the gubbins from around the pump and change any hoses that look perished when I next get a chance...

I'll keep you posted and thanks again!

 

[sae70]

I don't know if the D4D pump suffers from the spring stretch mod that the TD does. If it does it may account for the noises you are hearing.

Back in a mo' with a link

 

[sae70]

http://www.landcruiserclub.net/forums/showthread.php/44649-Spring-stretch-mod?highlight=pump+spring

 

[mike hatton]

It's a very quiet noise that only happens when pumping the primer... all said I'll be in there anyway so nothing to loose!

 

[mike hatton]

Well I've found the problem... So simple I've been kicking myself!

Got home at 4am on Saturday and had a thought, popped the filler flap, unscrewed the cap and tssssst. Blocked breather sucking the fuel away from the pump. Left the cap loose for now 'til I get to fix it. Is the breather in the cap or a pipe off the spout?

Thanks for all your help chaps.

 

[sae70]

Hi there Mike

I was under the impression that the fuel system on the Collies was a sealed system and thus as fuel is used a small vacum is created in the fuel tank, hense the 'Pssst' you hear when undoing the fuel cap. I also seem to remember talk that there's some way of the tank allowing some air in, but only to a point while still maintains the vacum. Maybe it was the cap?! I certainly have always had a 'Psssst' sound when removing the the fuel filler cap on both Fiery and Swampy. I had ever such a slight crack in the fuel tank on Fiery that only ever leaked following me removing the fuel cap to fill up. Normally only a few hundred meters from home and thus not enough time for the system to pull a vacum and curtail the leak.

 

[jbecks]

your going to have a few problems if your fuel tank is a sealed system steve

There is a breather on top of the fuel tank. If you want to rule out any vacuum leaks in your fuel line, get a small jerry can of diesel and connect it directly on to the feed/intake pipe of your fuel filter and try to run your car, if it eliminates your issues, you know you have a problem between the fuel filter and fuel tank. Some people have had issues with leaks at the fuel lines that connect to the top of the fuel tank...but I would carry out the test I mentioned first as its less work ....Has loosening the fuel cap solved the issue?

 

[Chris]

Steve don't think that is quite right. From memory when I had the problems on Lil Blue my searches led to the conclusion that the tank is actually under very slight positive pressure. And designed to be so. If you consider temperature variances across the world then there is no way that a warm fuel tank could be under negative pressure. As fuel is returned from the engine via the return pipe the tank gradually warms up. That pressure needs to be managed and vented when needed but without flammable vapour leaking everywhere. But there are situations where the pressure could drop and a vacuum in the tank wouldn't be helpful so make up air is needed too. In other words the tank needs to breathe. In and out. Now I can never remember this bit, but I think the cap lets air in when it needs to and vapour goes out via the little canister underneath. So the reason that you get a psst when you open the tank is normally because the canister is blocked and the pressure has built up. This is not air rushing in, it pressure rushing out.

Or it could be the other way around. Where's Rob when you need him? I seem to remember that he cracked this one.

 

[Graham]

Not sealed on the 120 series.
When I always open the cap, there is no air sounds, in or out.

Gra

 

[Chris]

That's because it's working properly Gra, I suspect.

 

[jbecks]

some air out is normal... As its expansion of the air inside.

 

[sae70]

I'm not a fuel system designer, but I know for a fact that the 'psst' I used to hear when unscrewing Fiery's fuel cap was air rushing in and the slight leak I had in the tank before TIG'ing it up would stop after a 20/30 mile drive due to the vacuum left behind by the gallon of fuel that left the tank while making this journey I have heard say in the past that a fuel cap is designed to allow air back into the tank as required. Is it not possible that the valve on the cap is design to allow the retension of a slight vacuum?

I'm assuming the 'psst' I get from Swampy is just the same thing and hopefully perfectly normal