Diff ratio quandry...

[David]

Does the engine over heat or just the transmission
I have a Madman EGT monitor on mine it works well
http://www.4x4overlander.com/product/madman-engine-management-system-ems1-2/
If it was still mine 1st thing I would do is take the stupid spotlights of and let some air in, then try it for a while before spending money

 

[Pumpy]

Spots are coming off, don't use them anyway. ATF overheated on the tarmac switchbacks because I was pushing too hard trying to keep up, when I stopped could hear coolant boiling. No problem in low range keeping below 2k revs, but then it only does about 20mph even on the flat bits.

It couldn't manage 80mph on the payage, any slight hill it would drop a gear, even doing 70mph, other option is to back off slightly to maintain high gear - either way on inclined payage I was down to <50mph, you know those slow lanes on hills for the lorries, got renamed the Toyota lane, tedium squared on an 800 mile slog home.

Forget overtaking, pulling out of junctions was all a bit hail mary for my liking hoping nothing would appear round the corners, it's a real slug off the mark until some momentum is biult up.

 

[Shayne]

What you describe reminds me of someone towing a very heavy trailer so i think you have power issues regardless of the big rubber .

Edit :-

Come to think of it i once turned my fuel right down at the pump and the result was lots of revs but not much go .

 

[Pumpy]

I dunno Shayne, I'm stumbling round in the dark here. I had the pump tuned as one of the first jobs when I got it, trying to stop a smoking issue (although I know now that was probably due to cracked pistons) don't know what was done to it Trev farmed it out to a specialist place.

I know I'm sick of thowing money at it, it now stands me at £20k if I'd known it was going to cost me that I'd never have bought it, I could cry in my beer knowing what I could have had for that budget.

feck knows how much more I've got to throw at it to get it right, I can imagnie a SS exhaust and related gubbing being over a grand, diffs more than that, and this before I start to address the wanged in wings muppet mal did, I can't even begin to imagine how that happened, opinions vary from ploughing it into snow pack to jumping it, not to mention the fecked state of the engine he sold on as a goodun. I just replaced a wing mirror, the last one was held in with "no more nails" gives some indication of the care the car recieved eh.

 

[Shayne]

I think we all feel a bit like that when things go wrong Pumpy , i know i do , my truck has definitely cost more than a 120 half its age and then some but would i swap ? not even with a cash incentive going my way

Whoever tuned your pump had no chance of getting it right if pistons were shot and ultimately has probably done you a favour because a lean mix is exactly what you want while running new pistons in . I don't know the 80 but i can't imagine turning up the fuel a notch is overwhelmingly complicated . Tough motors them and though a fancy exhaust would be nice but its not a necessity .

Find the fuel adjust screw turn it 1/8th of a turn and go for a drive around town . If i'm right you will notice an improvement straight of . Let smoke be your guide for me a little smoke from a cold engine on tickover which clears with a blip of throttle is very close to where it wants to be .

I will drive it for a week to familiarize myself then turn it up another notch to see if i can improve it again with this method sooner or later you will turn it up to find smoke with no power gains = bingo turn it down 1/8th and call it job done .

 

[Pumpy]

Thanks Shayne, I've got it on the N44 Response stand at Billing this weekend (raise some eyebrows at a LR show ) I'll get our mechanical guru to show me the pump adjustments and play with it next week. I'm tempted to fit some sort of monitoring anyway, EGTs would be good to know if I'm tweaking it, ATF temps would be handy too.

 

[chapel gate]

How has the pump been tuned without a egt gauge? I run egt and a boost gauge. I run 15 psi boost. The fuel is adjusted to the egts.
have there been numerous occasions when you've said to yourself, " im glad i have a 4" lift and 35s"?

 

[Shayne]

Wanged wings (whatever they are?) and shot pistons might a fast entry into deep water result in both if it dislodged the snorkel ?

 

[Pumpy]

How has the pump been tuned without a egt gauge? I run egt and a boost gauge. I run 15 psi boost. The fuel is adjusted to the egts.
have there been numerous occasions when you've said to yourself, " im glad i have a 4" lift and 35s"?

Not sure how it was tuned, it was farmed out to a specialist place, clearly it need doing again after the engine rebuild anyway. Aye monitoring seems the way to go with hindsight, it's been an education. I do like the height, and the EFS gas shocks are ace, but knowing what I know now about cost implications on the gear ratios (which are frankly, shit) I think the way to go would have been 2" and bring the side steps in a couple of inches to stop the initial problem of the truck sitting on them in the ruts (they're way too wide for UK ruts without a huge lift and bigger boots) that way it wouldn't have looked stupid with smaller boots on, and the ratios wouldn't be so far out on smaller boots. I've not been happy with the ratios since I've had it, even when the pump was turned right up.

Wanged wings (whatever they are?) and shot pistons might a fast entry into deep water result in both if it dislodged the snorkel ?

It's another possibility for the wings, best guess on the engine is timing belt went at some point, the pistons had multiple marks from hitting injectors/glow plugs (or something) and burn holes from diesel pooling, besides the cracks, and random chunk of metal in the sump.
I did ask Mal but he stopped communicating when I asked about why he was asking for advice on compression pressures and problems with smoke - he came back saying he'd never once had any issues with the truck, denied asking about compresson, so I linked his thread asking about it here... https://www.landcruiserclub.net/community/threads/compression-test-what-pressure.137281/ he stopped responding at that point.
here's the wanged wings, added bonus of drilling self tappers into the arches to hold them on

 

[Lorin]

Re-gearing would not only improve your truck's get-up-and-go, but would also be a significant factor in reducing your ATF temps. Just tweaking the pump for more power would not help ATF temps, it would likely make the issue a bit worse.

Constantly throwing money at things inevitably ends up getting pretty frustrating. An alternative approach may be to start from the question of what is really needed in terms of suspension lift and tyre size for what you actually want to be able to do. Is it a viable option to reduce both? Both would have a value to sell on thereby reducing the cost of making the change. Doing this would avoid the necessity of regearing, would reduce your ATF temps and would improve the trucks get-up-and-go. It would probably work out considerably cheaper than pursuing a 'fix' and would likely have little to no negative impact on what you want the truck to be able to do. You may even get a few extra mpgs! Just a thought....

 

[Pumpy]

Done a vid of the lead-up to the boilover, cut the first 4 mins of rolling hill off, and speeded up the next 4 mins x16, left it in to easier get a handle on the terrain, so about 10 mins of hill climb leading up to the boil-over. Was in high range L/2 most of the time...

 

[Pumpy]

Re-gearing would not only improve your truck's get-up-and-go, but would also be a significant factor in reducing your ATF temps. Just tweaking the pump for more power would not help ATF temps, it would likely make the issue a bit worse.

Constantly throwing money at things inevitably ends up getting pretty frustrating. An alternative approach may be to start from the question of what is really needed in terms of suspension lift and tyre size for what you actually want to be able to do. Is it a viable option to reduce both? Both would have a value to sell on thereby reducing the cost of making the change. Doing this would avoid the necessity of regearing, would reduce your ATF temps and would improve the trucks get-up-and-go. It would probably work out considerably cheaper than pursuing a 'fix' and would likely have little to no negative impact on what you want the truck to be able to do. You may even get a few extra mpgs! Just a thought....

I've had similar thoughts Lorin, kind of stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea - EFS kit cost £2k + best part of £500 for the drop boxes and Anti-roll/bumpstop drop kits; can't see me getting all that back, then I'd have the cost of a 2" lift kit and new boots.

I'll have to cost out the regearing, but it's probably inevitable, it'll be only slightly higher than what I imagine I'd lose if I sold the 4" kit and bought a 2" kit and new boots, maybe even less in the long run, and I'd have a much better truck on the EFS set-up.

The ATF overheating thing is only a minor inconvinience knowing I can drop into low box to avoid it, plus removing the spots will help a bit.

It's been a long and winding educational road (boom boom) to get me this far, regearing seems the best option at this point.

 

[chapel gate]

Done a vid of the lead-up to the boilover, cut the first 4 mins of rolling hill off, and speeded up the next 4 mins x16, left it in to easier get a handle on the terrain, so about 10 mins of hill climb leading up to the boil-over. Was in high range L/2 most of the time...

Imo you really need to fit a egt gauge..

 

[Roger]

Roger did you order direct from Nirto-Gear? What was the total for two diffs inc fitting kit/shipping/duty etc? just trying to get a ballpark figure for the costs.

Have I got this right?

DIFF RATIO FORMULA

Larger tyre size divided x standard tyre size
35” divided by 31” = 1.1290 which = 12%

To calculate correct ratio - Standard diff size x 12%
example - 4.10 x 12% + = 4.592

Will the standard lockers still work too?

I guess thats a good rule of thumb - there a plenty of online web calculators out there also - although this one has cruiser information in it already Diff Ratio Calculator

Yes, standard lockers will work fine (they are not part of the ring and pinion).

I ordered mine through locktup4x4 in Australia who sent them direct from America - it worked out about £70 better this way due to the awful current usa$ to £

 

[Pumpy]

Thanks Roger, 4.56 seems the way to go, I'll get them ordered.

 

[Shayne]

The results of my running lean experiment suggest to me that the consequence would play havoc with an auto box , engine speed not actual speed tells it when to change .
My trucks manual and it was a short experiment but i do remember wanting to change up at 60 something mph when i was in top gear . With the fuel set right i'm still accelerating hard at 100mph .

 

[Pumpy]

I'm still researching EGT/Boost gauge/ATF temp doofahs, I get this is the only way to set the pump right, no idea how I'm going to get it fitted yet, but on top of that the gearing is shit.

I can drop it in 3rd manually when I hit the sloth window at about 40mph, it just revs higher, there's no spurt of acceleration, it takes about 3 seconds per mph to creep up, when I do pop it into D from there, revs drop like a stone - if I'm on any sort of incline when the revs feel right to change from 3-D it will slow down if I do. There's been no change since I had the pump turned down from "stupid" setting, tho this was prior to the engine rebuild, the gearing has always felt shit too.

I'm thinking if 4.56 diffs are bang on for 37's on Chris's 12v Auto, that's better/nearer spec to 35's on 4.1 diffs, throwing maths at it 4.56 is pretty damn close to the nearest to stock on 35"'s. Jon says "4.88's would over compensate for the 35's but that's usually a good thing on an 80 carrying a lot of extra weight." Roger says "Personally, with 5.56 or 5.88 I think you will be way too low and whilst you will get up to speed quicker, you will run out of Revs and be screaming." but he's on a manual box regearing from 3.7 diffs on bigger rubber. me? I'm clueless but 5.56 looks right on paper, and I could go up to 37s in future. I was on the phone with Trev yesterday trying to get some clarity, I just wasted his time for over an hour, still no clear answer.

I'm still groping around in the dark, I can't see a way to get all this sorted yet, for diffs I can do the maths, order the parts, know the chap to do the job, it feels like I'm heading in the right direction and doing something constructive, the rest is all arm waving to me right now. I know the pump needs sorting but that's all I know, there's no "do A+B+C=solution" right now, I've got 20 odd windows open trying to find a guage that's a)reasonably priced b) do EGTs, Boost, And ATF temps, and c) not have the asthetics of a 1970's casio watch, even when I've found something and ordered it, it'll turn up and I'll still be lost with WTF to do with it

After that brilliant ebay post the other day, I think Toyota is the illuminati

 

[Chris]

Why don't you ask Trev if you can borrow the 4.56's out of the Silver Phoenix. After all, he's done SOD ALL with it .....

 

[Scott]

A good suggestion Chris, I was wondering about the other way and seeing if Pumpy could borrow some 285/75/16 on wheels to bolt on and see how the rest of the drive train performs. As although the overgearing by the 35" will be contributing to the drop in performance it does seem that there could be other contributory issues. If you were closer you could try my spare set of 285/75/16 to see what difference they make.

I have experienced dull performance similar to what Pumpy has described on the autoroute and after a long process of fault finding eventually turned out to be a worn out injector pump (which was the replacement supposedly "known good" until to rule out the original!). With the history that is behind your engine I'd consider it a wise move to have the injector pump and injectors rebuilt, as I wouldn't want to risk damaging the engine after all your hard work. 80s are getting old these days and many have 200K already under their belt, so a refresh of the fuel system could be due.

The injector pumps have a lift pump in them which pulls the diesel from the tank, these also get tired and can become borderline, often shown up when you stop on a steep up hill section offroad and the engine struggles to idle on the small amount of diesel that the lift pump manages to drag up from the tank against gravity. People have got around this by installing a Walbro pusher pump to assist the lift pump, as documented by Chris in this thread: https://www.landcruiserclub.net/community/threads/installing-a-walbro-pusher-pump.131934/ Could be an option worth considering.

Has the gaze filter on the end of the in tank pick up pipe been checked? These can get clogged and restrict the diesel flow to the engine. This can be checked by the access panel underneath the second row seats, which iirc have to be removed so that the carpet can be pulled back to access it. Well worth ticking off the list, as I had to sort this on a fellow owners 80 that had been fine in the UK but started to struggle in the mountains.

 

[Pumpy]

All sounds good chaps, would monitoring the EGT/boost give me any clues as to pump performance?

Think I've found a solution for the monitoring gubbins, these digi gauges are only 24x48mm, could have one for EGT, Boost, and ATF temps, got my head around the first two (although not happy drilling and tapping into manifolds personally, I could probably persuade a pet engineer to do it) not sure about ATF yet, have to match relevant probe to some sort of 'T' into the ATF pipe I think, seen it done on iH8mud but need uk relevant/available parts first.

they do these for all sorts on ebay here



3 should easy fit on a plate I could make to go in here...