Do you think this is racist?

[wobbly]

There is an insidious form of racism appearing in this country.

Groups such as Britain First hijack issues such as supporting the military and gain support by subversive facebook campaigns - asking you to like their post if you support Britains troops etc.

Thus, they gain apparent support, despite being a bona fide right-wing racist group.

They then stoke the fire with increasingly rabid messages.

Pete

 

[goodoldboy]

to me one thing that this debate illustrates is the power of the uk press to whip up fear ,hatred & hysteria at the drop of a hat.A complicated debate has for many years been over simplified by certan sections of the media & uk politicians have been too cowardly to be honest in the debate preferring to take easy political advantage.The (right wing) Spanish interior minister has recently said attempts by large groups of Africans to cross the border in Ceuta & Mellia are simply a result of poverty & the desire of immigrants to improve their lot.Here in Spain immigrants are seen with much more sympathy, something akin to that great British trait of supporting the underdog.

 

[Trevor]

There is a place for those that contribute which has already been said, it's true that our apparent relaxed entry criteria make this the Country of choice and the ease to which "entitlement" is given to benefits etc. The Socioeconomic factors are complex as to where and why similar groups of people live but people are drawn to where there are others of similar background/culture and so on.

What I'm not seeing (it may well be happening but not reported in the mainstream media) are the good elements of foreign settled communities standing up to the scroungers, extremists and others who tarnish their communities/faith or culture.

There are people who offer dodgy services to "get through" the benefit system, NI and other things but no one in that community seems to say anything about it. Of course it could be through fear and no doubt there is a hidden mafia behind some of this, but it seems to me that new found Citizenship doesn't bring with it much in the way of Patriotism for your new Country.

I believe we passed the moral tipping point years ago, Politicians are too scared to touch the issue, members of the Public can't really take a public view lest they be branded racist. When does Pride and Passion become racist, it seems to be when you fly the English/British flag in your garden and someone reports you to the Council for offending their sensibilities.....and the Council will tell you to take it down.

So the good will continue to come and offer great things for our Country and I welcome that, the bad....will continue to come and exploit, and nothing will get done. Unfortunately my perception is that more bad than good arrive each year.

 

[moggy1968]

we celebrate St Patricks day more than St Georges day. we fly irish flags but can't fly the cross of St George. Somewhere it's all gone a bit tits!

The good elements of foreigners in the UK are probably too busy getting on with their lives and keeping a low profile.

I was trying to remove a drunk abusive Polish man from the ED department a while back. A Polish paramedic asked if he could help so I asked him if he could tell the man to leave. When afterwards I suggested the conversation went on a long time he did admit to saying a bit more than just asking the man to leave! He went on to say how humiliating and disgusting he found the behaviour of some of his countrymen, as indeed I do about the English abroad sometimes!! Lets be honest, we don't have the best reputation in some countries!

I often get 'normal' Polish people intervening with the drunk Poles in ED and having a go at them about their behaviour, but as with the English yobs on the piss in the med, your talking to a brick wall, you might just as well go piss in your breakfast cereal!

 

[Graham]

I also have to agree that there has been far too much indiscriminate allowance to let almost any one into our country.

For far too long, we have allowed the type of folk into our country, who want to "take, take, take" with no or almost zero contribution.

Many folk will know my wife is Chinese, and what an incredibly difficult time we had, entering UK.
Her education surpasses all the UK requirements, and within a few short weeks of arriving in this fair country, she had got herself a job, selling UK manufactured goods, exports back to China.
Of course, her native Chinese was the key point in this position.

One point I would like to make, is that immigrants coming into our country to live (not visit) , should be able to speak good English.
This requirement set by Theresa May, only applies to non Europeans, who's mother tongue is not English.
My gripe is that many of the Eastern Europeans, who do not (or don't want to) speak any English, do not have this English speaking requirement, yet for my wife, fortunately, her English is as good as yours or mine, with passing a Cambridge English (ESOL - English Speakers of Other Languages) at 92%

Her has now moved on to a bigger and more well paid post, where she now does the reverse, ie, she imports paper goods from China, which end up in Tesco, Asda, Matalan, WH Smith, etc, etc.

So again, the fundamental point I like to make, is that we should only admit folk who are going to be a net benefit to our country.

We have enough low level educated folk here, and we really don't need any more.
As to the will, of our own native UK folk to actually get out of bed of a morning and do a days work, is another stoney issue.

Gra.

 

[clivehorridge]

I'm not sure that a fixed rule of being able to speak the language of the country of domicile is a practical solution to any of the problems raise, as it very much depends on the circumstances of the individual.

As may be gathered, I'm living in Romania and the language, for me is a nightmare. I understand a lot of it and can speak a bit, but I'm not proficient enough to be wholly independent. But, as it happens, I'm married to a Romanian, so any formal dealings relying on proper understanding, can be conveyed via Aura. Signing official documents or declarations is all done quite effectively through legal translations (at a very small fee here) and in my workplace the language is almost exclusively English.

If anyone suffers from my inadequate command of Romanian, it's me, missing out on casual chat and social communication with non- English speakers. Actually, it's quite a lot of fun, if you have the right frame of mind! JMHO of course

 

[Philip A]

Zero freebies.
No welfare.
IF you find a job, you're allowed to put an application for a yearly renewable permit for five years. Your employer must endorse it. No family in the country.
After five years of permanent employment, you can apply for a permanent residence status, and get your wife and OWN kids into the country, IF you have the means to maintain them on whatever income you have.

Or something along these lines.

Tough? Tough luck then... Europe was not built easily, as far as I know.

 

[clivehorridge]

Zero freebies.
No welfare.
IF you find a job, you're allowed to put an application for a yearly renewable permit for five years. Your employer must endorse it. No family in the country.
After five years of permanent employment, you can apply for a permanent residence status, and get your wife and OWN kids into the country, IF you have the means to maintain them on whatever income you have.

Or something along these lines.

Tough? Tough luck then... Europe was not built easily, as far as I know.

It's a bit strange in many ways, because I would like my daughter to have a British Passport which as far as I'm aware, she is entitled being the daughter of a British citizen.

Whilst making enquiries, I asked the British Counsel what my Wife's status would be regards the UK.

The answer was "none whatsoever, whilst living in Romania".


"If you (she) comes to the UK to live, and remains resident for 5 years (continuous with exits less than 90 days/year), then she could (as the wife of a British citizen) apply for permanent residence, then become a British citizen and then have a British Passport.

Meantime, working or not, no entitlement to benefits.

 

[moggy1968]

unfortunately Clive, if you do things properly you do get penalised like this, and it costs a fortune if the person is non EU (I know that doesn't apply to you now). Thats my experience of being married to a non EU national and trying to do things properly anyway.

just paid out over £1800 for the latest round of visas for my wife and stepson.

 

[clivehorridge]

unfortunately Clive, if you do things properly you do get penalised like this, and it costs a fortune if the person is non EU (I know that doesn't apply to you now). Thats my experience of being married to a non EU national and trying to do things properly anyway.

just paid out over £1800 for the latest round of visas for my wife and stepson.

Yep, it's frustrating because of course I'm not after any benefits or social handouts, I'm just trying to bring our paperwork into shape with what we're entitled in terms of Nationality status and Passports.

I'll be happy just to get Ana's (daughter) British passport, citizenship can come later, but I think that depends on residency and we're not (planning to be ) going to live in the UK.

 

[Shayne]

The whole thing baffles me i was born in the Isle of Man to an English father and Manx Mother (i was asked when i applied at 16 if i wanted a Manx or British passport) , paid all my dues taxes stamp and national insurance (not cheap when you've been self employed more or less since school) . I crashed my bike and spent a year in Nobles hospital which happens to be the most incompetent hospital in the modern world . Then escaped to Cardiff with an invite from Helen whom i had only met for an hour 3 days before my accident . Unfortunately by this time i was financially broke so had to claim benefits . Being Manx i was forced to spend hours in the immigration office in Cardiff , most of that time was spent searching for someone who spoke enough English to interview me . Then despite being in plaster and having lumps of metal sticking out of my leg and a district nurse visiting me daily to change dressings and scrape bone out of 2 holes 2 inches deep in the side of my knee , i was sent for 3 or 4 medical examinations to see if i was fit for work . The Isle of Man Government aware that i had issued court proceedings against them and also aware they were 100% guilty conveniently lost my contribution records . So eventually i was awarded the most minimum of benefits and was constantly forced to beg even for them despite it being less than i could earn a day when i was 15 years old .

I could not have survived without Helen's help and often didn't want to even with it . I'm British

 

[clivehorridge]

Agreed, it is a bit upside down, whichever way you look at it.

On a lighter note Shayne, I like your quote, "I was forced to spend hours in the immigration office in Cardiff , most of that time was spent searching for someone who spoke enough English to interview me..."

I imagine at best you'd have got English in a very broad Cardiff accent, even from a third generation Indian or Pakistani!

 

[Shayne]

That's an assumption based on predisposed prejudice Clive ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Oddly enough you are correct though

 

[Graham]

It's a bit strange in many ways, because I would like my daughter to have a British Passport which as far as I'm aware, she is entitled being the daughter of a British citizen.

Whilst making enquiries, I asked the British Counsel what my Wife's status would be regards the UK.

The answer was "none whatsoever, whilst living in Romania".


"If you (she) comes to the UK to live, and remains resident for 5 years (continuous with exits less than 90 days/year), then she could (as the wife of a British citizen) apply for permanent residence, then become a British citizen and then have a British Passport.

Meantime, working or not, no entitlement to benefits.

.
Not quite, but close,

180 days per year in each year, and no more than 270 days in the last 3 years totally.

Gra.

 

[clivehorridge]

.
Not quite, but close,

180 days per year in each year, and no more than 270 days in the last 3 years totally.

Gra.

Thanks Gra, I must admit I didn't pay too much attention as we have no ambitions for my wife to have British residency or nationality. Thanks for the correction.

 

[hopeless wanderer]

I intended to look for some ideas for a speaker upgrade and stumbled upon this thread.

Moggy has pretty much hit the nail on the head IMHO.
The mass media for many years has been fermenting mistrust and propgating division amongst ethnicities and religions. We have millions of Muslims in the UK working as doctors, cabbies, teachers etc etc
There are even a few hundred in H.M. forces. Who gets the front page of the paper ?? The hook handed, one eyed lunatic week after week. Once he was deported they found another to take his place.
Yes ive no doubt that this guy in the article made the statement because ultimately there are arseholes in every section of society, What we need to do is remember they are vastly outnumbered by decent folk

To clarify my point

I am against open immigration. I believe people should be welcomed to this country if they have something positive to contribute (at the last count 16% of NHS dentists were polish)

If I were to live in a foreign country, I would expect to abide by the customs, culture and values of that country, it's only polite to do so.

If you live in this country, learn the language. I would expect to do the same if I moved to your country.

I strongly object to people coming to this country to commit crime, scrounge of the state or make free use of the NHS.

Many of these people come to this country and enrich our society and make a valuable contribution. Take an historical example of the indian immigration in the post war years. Now, think of the jobs you would associate with indians. Doctor, taxi driver, corner shop owner, restaurant owner. All jobs that require a serious work ethic and commitment. Most of the eastern europeans that I know work extremely hard and make a very important contribution to this country, but I also come across many in my work who are drunken drains on the resource of this country and should be sent back.

What I am against though, and what really concerns me and was the point of my original post, is the demonisation of muslims and eastern europeans by the gutter press in hysterical articles which seldom have any real basis in fact and do little to resolve the problem, fueling the fires of hatred of the missguided, ill educated or just downright stupid. If you take even a superficial look at history, you will see that this is exactly the behaviour that went on in Germany in the 1930s and directly led to the atrocities later commited against many races (not just the jews). There have been many many other examples in the post war years where such demonisation of entire ethnic groups has led to mass extermination and the ill judged, ill researched, inaccurate rantings of the press only serve to increase the possibility of this type of behaviour in this country, and I don't want my wife, who is eastern european and speaks better english than most english people to be afraid of living in a country I love and spent 23 years of my life training to defend.