Engine Pre-heater

[SteveS]

I had a Webasto on my 110 mounted low down - about 2 foot along the exhaust manifold in terms of position on the car - ie low but at the back of the engine compartment. That unit had many dunkings and plenty of mud action. It ran fine through all of that BUT you will need to ensure that there is a air-lock bend in the exhaust pipe. Also my Webasto stopped after a while as the spark arrester had got blocked. Apparently it is common for units that run for long periods at less than full power (I'd been to Norway and ran it constantly for two weeks even with the engine running so couldn't be sure if that was just some lame warranty excuse). Anyway the received wisdom from Webasto was to remove the spark arrester - it worked fine after that. There is also the possibility of the exhaust getting bunged up with mud being scraped off the ground if the exhaust is very low on the car (my 110 had it emerging under the passenger seat). They are not particularly quiet either and people complain in quiet campsites.

 

[uHu]

Very good info, Steve. A fellow cruiserhead here had it behind the front bumper on his 100. Always worked fine, but down low is not a perfect place.

I'm about to install a Webasto Evo 5 kw water heater in my 2004 100-series. Haven't started yet, but hoping to get to it during the xmas period. Not sure were I will take fuel from, directly from the tank or from the line to the engine. I know some have tapped in on the return from the IP. The location on the 100 is where the EDU is now, next to the fuse box. Move the EDU further out on the fender, and make/modify a bracket for the heater.
Still debating whether to keep the Power Heater. Not that it's in the way, but another mechanical item that wears out. Not much effect fom it anyhow, 1.5 kw compared to 5 from the Webasto, or up to 150 from the engine.

 

[SteveS]

Very good info, Steve. A fellow cruiserhead here had it behind the front bumper on his 100. Always worked fine, but down low is not a perfect place.

I'm about to install a Webasto Evo 5 kw water heater in my 2004 100-series. Haven't started yet, but hoping to get to it during the xmas period. Not sure were I will take fuel from, directly from the tank or from the line to the engine. I know some have tapped in on the return from the IP. The location on the 100 is where the EDU is now, next to the fuse box. Move the EDU further out on the fender, and make/modify a bracket for the heater.
Still debating whether to keep the Power Heater. Not that it's in the way, but another mechanical item that wears out. Not much effect fom it anyhow, 1.5 kw compared to 5 from the Webasto, or up to 150 from the engine.

A friend of mine put his in a box on top of his roof rack and plumbed everything up to it....not my cup of tea to be honest....his was a warm air unit rather than engine warming unit though. There is a big enough gap in my 100 where the AHC was stripped out - would need to make a decent bracket to put in on. Another option but more intrusive could be to tap into the rear heater unit - and its pipes that go to the engine - under the passenger seat (but I don't fancy having that sort of thing in the car) but there is a big (but low down) space outside near there on the cross member. If you don't have it already I seem to recall that Webasto have specific make/model fitting instruction sheets

 

[StarCruiser]

After fitting my air heating Eberspacher under the seat, I would go for something under the bonnet if at all possible. The D2 is good for heating the interior, but just a tad too noisy to operate overnight and doesn't demist the windscreen unless you heat up the cabin and put the fan on recirculate which then starts to fog up again if you don't switch it back.

 

[Towpack]

After a bit more measuring and with bit of juggling of existing pipework I reckon the Thermo Top C unit will just fit mounted transversely in the engine bay on the LHS just in front of the bulkhead and above what looks like some sort of vacuum unit but, reading the install instructions, it states the unit must be mounted at least 6" below the lowest level in the cooling system which would be the bottom of the rad! I think this is in case of air locks in the system which would otherwise lodge in the heater unit. The pics I've seen so far of LC engine bay mounted units all have it mounted high up so I'm assuming it must work OK if the cooling system is bled correctly after install??

 

[Cptsideways]

It will work fine so long as its not the highest part of the water works. I have one (on my conservatory UFH) it has its own header tank but it no more than 6" below the top of the water level. They are pretty well sealed, OE spec sealed electric plugs etc. It will be fine in an engine bay.

I just bought a perfectly good working one for £47 on ebay this week

 

[Towpack]

Not seen any as cheap as that. Seen very 2nd hand ropey looking units for around £60 with short warranties but refurbished/remanufactured and guaranteed units with full fitting kits and timers can be had for just under £400. A brand new kit is a lot more expensive. I couple of months back I was swaying towards replacing the 80 with a V8 100 series after driving one but I've scrapped that idea so don't mind spending a bit on the old girl.

 

[karl webster]

Just as a heads up. Buying second hand you really havnt a clue if they will work or not. Trust me, I know lol.

 

[Cptsideways]

They are really simple to fix if they don't work though, if the ecu is duff (rare) there is a man who will fix them for £60. Usually its a duff fuel or water pump that stops them working.

 

[karl webster]

They are really simple to fix if they don't work though, if the ecu is duff (rare) there is a man who will fix them for £60. Usually its a duff fuel or water pump that stops them working.

I may try one then Decan. My experience with the eberspachers what are basically the same thing is I wish I bought new. Three heaters all bought second hand didn't work. I then buy a diagnostic controller that wouldn't clear the faults so I sent them to a auto electrician who also couldn't get them working. So basically I've bought £200 worth of scrap heaters off eBay.

 

[Towpack]

If I was to mount one in said position in the engine bay the top of the unit would be about level with the cam/valve cover. The pump is fixed to the bottom of the unit so maybe 4-5" lower than the top most heater hoses although it is possible to detach the pump and mount it separately. The pump isn't the self priming type so hence needs a head of water. On a sealed cooling system like the 1H engines have though I don't see how air could get in once it's been bled. The system is basically self bleeding right? Fill the system, start the engine and any air is purged through into the top of the rad and topped up with coolant. So, on this thinking, the Webasto unit should work in any position.

 

[Cptsideways]

Karl, 1: Does the fan come on when powering them up? if so the length of time they run for dictates the fault. Usually its the glowplug resistance or water pump resistance out of range. Rummage "Fuel Burning Heater" on the Rover 75 forums & you will find all the info you need.

They must be wired up to the original solenoid type fuel pump,
They must be plugged into with a water pump that works with the right resistance
Check the the fan goes round (remove square shape plastic clip on cover)
Check the glow plug works

As for wiring:
Big wire plug = main power & earth feed supply
Larger plug with small wires you only use the two outer/opposite wires Brown = pump +, Opposite end red/yel = a 12v feed to turn it on. Cut the power here & it will start its shut down process which will take up to 3-4mins if its been running.

 

[karl webster]

Had one working Declan. Then overheated as the Ecu didn't shut heater down. Had hundreds of fault codes that's why I've bought the diagnostic controller.mi can wipe the codes but they just come back. The guy that I let have a look has the full diagnostics stuff and he still couldn't sort them. Really cheesed off with myself for spending good money on sxxt mate to be honest. One of the heaters will go through the start up process,fuel pump fires up burner starts firing up then shuts itself down. Won't give my any faults on that on but just does the same thing over and over. I've done so much reading up on the net with the things its driving me dray. With every fault it just directs you to Ecu fault. For the eberspacher Ecu your looking at around £200.

 

[StarCruiser]

Oh dear Karl, this is sounding awfully familiar…. I think, though cannot be absolutely sure, when I first had mine working, it would fire up, shut down, fire up, shut down until very soon after that it died completely. I bit the bullet and put a new ECU on it (ouch!) and it has worked faultlessly since.

Just a thought, and I'm certain you will have done all this, but have you got a non return valve in the fuel line and bled the air bubbles out all the way to the heater? Also, could air have become trapped in the water side of the heater chamber causing the overheat?

 

[karl webster]

Oh dear Karl, this is sounding awfully familiar…. I think, though cannot be absolutely sure, when I first had mine working, it would fire up, shut down, fire up, shut down until very soon after that it died completely. I bit the bullet and put a new ECU on it (ouch!) and it has worked faultlessly since.

Just a thought, and I'm certain you will have done all this, but have you got a non return valve in the fuel line and bled the air bubbles out all the way to the heater? Also, could air have become trapped in the water side of the heater chamber causing the overheat?

To be honest rich. My posts above didnt include the hours of trying to get the diagnostic thing to work I've since bought a diagnostic controller for £130 so I can use it with the heaters as my other controllers are only for the air ones.
Could well be that the unit got air locked. From talking to other guys though. The ecus should detect over heating and shut the unit down rarther than causing any damage. I've swapped parts around from 3 different heaters until I gave up and gave them to a guy that knew what he was doing with them. He still couldn't sort them. Just wish I had bought new. I've spent far more on second hand sxxt that doesn't work than I would have just buying a brand new unit.

Probably just my on going bad luck and black cloud that seems to follow me everywhere.

 

[Towpack]

I guess it's the same when buying any electrical/mechanical device 2nd hand. You can get lucky and buy one that works perfectly, a faulty one that is an easy fix or just a pile of scrap but it's the chance you take. There are parts on the Webasto units that obviously can't be fixed requiring replacement at some cost. If I decide to fit one it will either be new or , at the very least, a professionally refurbished unit with a decent warranty.

 

[StarCruiser]

If I were you Karl, and I know it is a bitter pill, I would get a replacement ECU. That way you KNOW the ECU is good. You can then swap it across the heaters and see that they work. At that point, an investment of the cost of the ECU each time will net you a working heater to sell or make up a kit for roof tent heating.

I know what it's like under that black cloud mate and I know this way out isn't cheap…but it's a way out to turn what isn't really scrap (but feels like it at the moment) into something workable.

 

[Towpack]

I see Eiberspacher also do a pre-heater which is the same Kw rating but slightly smaller than the Webasto Top C units. Anyone have any experience of the Eiberspacher's and how they compare to the Webasto versions?

 

[StarCruiser]

You do know how to upset a fellow TP…[emoji53][emoji22]

 

[uHu]

I see Eiberspacher also do a pre-heater which is the same Kw rating but slightly smaller than the Webasto Top C units. Anyone have any experience of the Eiberspacher's and how they compare to the Webasto versions?

Afaik, and see around here, where half of all diesel vehicles have an extra heater, they are about equally good, Eber and Webasto.
Webasto's latest, the Thermo Top Evo, is also much smaller than the Thermo Top C, or P.
If you don't have the installation manual, you can find it here: http://doc.webasto-russia.ru/Car/Toyota/