Engine vibration 1HD-T

[StarCruiser]

For the last few months my HDJ 81 has been suffering from engine vibration. Not badly, but it's there. Worse on cold start but still there when warm. Thing is, although the old girl has her 21st this year, she's not done many miles, about 130,000 in fact.

So, I've searched on here for threads on vibration, and there's a few, but they all seem to stop without someone saying 'aha! Thanks guys it was……and it's all sorted now!'

After reading these threads, I've checked/changed the following:-

1, BEBs- were in almost perfect nick, still vibrates
2, fuel filter-was overdue by 6000miles (oops) but still vibrates
3, filled the filter with Wynns Eco Diesel and ran it through-still vibrates.
4, ACSD cold start device-although the gaiter is split, this still operates (Has anyone got a gaiter they can send me?)
5, took the ACSD off as there is some talk of bits breaking off and lodging in the pump. I'm not sure which bit breaks (anyone know?) but here's a photo up the bore of the pump. The actual lever on the ACSD was fine (as far as I could tell looking at photos of other people's on here) but I don't know whether the bits that can break are part of the pump itself?

Looking at the photo, I'm not entirely sure what the ACSD acts upon. Is it the grey wedge shaped lever at top left? If so it looks vaguely like the lever on the ACSD MIGHT be scoring on the face of it rather than acting to move it left, if you see what I mean, though there isn't any evidence on the edges of jumping or being forced around the end. Anyone got any experience here to know how this operates and what should be where, acting on what?

Thing is, I'm not entirely convinced it is the ACSD not acting on the lever, as the vibration is more noticeable when cold, this would surely be the time when it should be least noticeable due to the pump internals being set for cold starting and possibly staying there. Which surely would give poorer running (which it does) only? However, the more I look into this, the more I feel it is a timing issue as the vibration is mainly noticeable at idle, even fast idle, but is less detectable during normal driving…but it's there. Starting is the normal-half a key, and she still has plenty of go when driving.

Any help or suggestions gratefully received.
Richard

 

[frank rabbets]

I would be almost 100% sure you have a misfire on 1 or more cylinders. Get the engine running at idle and in turn undo the injector pipe nut on each injector. This is to starve each cylinder in turn and cause a misfire vibration. With a healthy engine you will find that each injector nut loosened will cause a small vibration. With a misfireing engine undoing the nut on the faulty injector will not make any difference.

It defo won't be the ACSD. The pin that breaks off is that little one on the part you have taken off.

 

[frank rabbets]

P.S. Yes it acts on the wedge at the top. When hot the pin will not touch the wedge and the pump injection will be running at it's timed position as in the Workshop Manual. If the ACSD is removed and a plate put over the engine will NOT need to be retimed. I think I mistakenly posted the opposite some time ago.

 

[StarCruiser]

Thanks Frank. That was next on my list. I forgot to mention I had done a cranking without the plug connected to the stop solenoid to try and see if I've got a low compression issue and all seemed equal to the ear. I can put it on a scope to check this but it seemed ok.

Will try the misfire test.

Funny thing also is that I used to get quite acrid, ever so slightly white exhaust, right from day one, but that has gone now since this problem has started. Hmm, another finger pointing to an injector problem methinks…

 

[StarCruiser]

Ok, done that. Each cylinder was the same and caused a "brub brub brub brub brub brub brub" sound with corresponding engine wobble.

The thing is, thus is a very subtle vibration, which I would say is over the whole engine rather than one cylinder. If I said 'grainy' rather than 'lumpy' would that make sense? The misfire test created a definite 'lumpy' run. This is more of a lack of its normal smoothness than an all out lumpy vibration. It makes things in the interior buzz at its peak.

 

[MikesVX80]

Mine has a worn gearbox mount which causes some vibration at idle, through the whole car but can be seen through exaggerated gearstick movement. It disappears as soon as you apply some revs - maybe worth checking those mounts too?

 

[mettisse]

hiya, it might be worth checking the crankshaft damper, if the rubber internals fracture ( through age) it vibrates in a strange manner, I had it, easy to rectify with a secondhand damper. (Just a thought,) hope you find the scource, let us all know, best regards, Bill Westley

 

[StarCruiser]

Thanks Mike and Bill. I do get vibration through the low range gear stick which is now worse than it used to be.

Both these make lots of sense, especially as they would most probably be affected by age not just mileage.

I have seen somewhere about the rear gearbox mounts turning to mush or some such.

Bill

Which is the crankshaft damper? Is it a two part pulley on the front end with rubber between held on by a nut you need an elephant on a 6 foot breaker bar to undo?

 

[clivehorridge]

I had a G/B mount failure causing metal on metal vibes, which I guess will be different from yours.

I can't imagine why it failed, usually these mounts go because of oil contamination, but there's not a single drip from my engine or G/B. Dry as a proverbial bone.

A vibe like yours will be a bugger to trace, just a process of elimination I suppose. I would have guessed a tight tappet causing some loss of compression one one cylinder, but if you've checked compressions, then....

Good luck with your search

 

[StarCruiser]

Thanks Clive.
I agree, it isn't the thump of metal to metal, but worth checking all the same.

Whilst I'm by no means certain on this, I have discounted compression as it has no appreciable smoke of any description coming from the exhaust. Totally clear, and as I say, no longer acrid and eye stinging as it was for 11 years with a little white smoke.

Something has clearly changed. My suspicion is injectors or timing but I am far from certain.

I will look at the rubber bits as they are easy to eliminate.

 

[frank rabbets]

Bad luck not tracing it to a faulty injector and glad to hear your cranking test revealed equal compressions. These engines are not very fussy on timing so I would leave that till' last. Reason I suspected an injector is that I drove a 12 valve once which had a faulty injector. Vibration was worst at idle.

 

[Dave2000]

Is the vibration only at idle? Does it smooth out as revs are increased? Loose harmonic damper or deterioration of the rubber bonding between the two parts in not unknown. I have also seen the rubber engine mount on the turbo side start to crumble resulting in metal to metal contact, never seen a problem on the non turbo side. An inlet manifold leak can cause unbalanced combustion within individual cylinders. Poor injector pattern? Just throwing stuff out there?

regards

Dave

 

[mettisse]

Thanks Mike and Bill. I do get vibration through the low range gear stick which is now worse than it used to be.

Both these make lots of sense, especially as they would most probably be affected by age not just mileage.

I have seen somewhere about the rear gearbox mounts turning to mush or some such.

Bill

Which is the crankshaft damper? Is it a two part pulley on the front end with rubber between held on by a nut you need an elephant on a 6 foot breaker bar to undo?

I confess I don't know, Merlin our mechanic diagnosed and fixed it, but I'm sure there are people on here who can direct you, interestingly my son has recently had a similar problem on his Toyota Avensis, turned out it was an engine mount totalled by worn driveshafts, ( point being it was the engine mount) anyway, you've got lots to check out, as Clive has said its a process of elimination , hope you find it

 

[StarCruiser]

Thanks Dave and Bill. I'll have a look when I get a chance.

Bill, is his name really Merlin?

 

[StarCruiser]

Is the vibration only at idle? No
Does it smooth out as revs are increased? It is different, shall we say less noticeable. Loose harmonic damper or deterioration of the rubber bonding between the two parts in not unknown. I have also seen the rubber engine mount on the turbo side start to crumble resulting in metal to metal contact, never seen a problem on the non turbo side. I'll take a look at that one.
An inlet manifold leak can cause unbalanced combustion within individual cylinders. There is wee page of oil condensate around the inlet manifold gasket but this has been there for many years.

Poor injector pattern? My No1 suspect.

Just throwing stuff out there? Appreciate it.

regards

Dave

Replies to your thoughts above, thanks Dave.

 

[t1pper]

Hi,

I have had a similar problem with a John Deere tractor engine, it ran OK ish but was lumpy and vibey especially at tick over but seemed to improve when the revs were increased, we did have a bit of smoke but not noticeably so.

We did the standard injector pipe loosen test as mentioned but it did not identify itself the engine slowed on each cylinder, head gasket, valve clearance and compression all checked out fine.

We closely inspected the injectors to find the tip of one injector had cracked, obviously the faulty injector showed up more at tick over and it improved/became less noticeable as the revs increased, it was partially firing but not showing as a total misfire.

A new injector cured the problem, to save having all the injectors serviced/tested to eliminate the possibility of a faulty injector, it maybe worth considering dropping the exhaust manifold back to show the individual exhaust ports, one might show up something obvious like being coked up or slightly damp etc, pointing to a problem on a particular cylinder.

I have heard that you can feel a difference by pinching the injector pipes between finger and thumb at a low tick over the injection pulse will feel different on a faulty injector, but I have never had any luck with this method!!

 

[StarCruiser]

Hmm…most interesting t1pper. What you describe sounds very much like what is going on with mine. I'm gonna try that trick. I guess having all the injectors serviced/ reconditioned should be good for a 21yr old engine anyway as a bit of a birthday present if nothing else.

In case I end up going down the injector recon route, does anybody know of a good company wot does it? We used to have Lucas CAV in Chichester but they've long moved on.

 

[Knucklehead]

Heard these guys know their stuff:


United Diesel Fuel Injection Services
www.uniteddiesel.co.uk


I was quoted last year about £ 489.00 to completely overhaul injectors using genuine nozzles or test the injectors at a cost of £ 101 40.


Have yet to get my lazy ass round servicing mine so can't comment on them but whoever you pick need to be familiar with two stage injector as they are difficult to set up - apparently.


Dave.

 

[mettisse]

Thanks Dave and Bill. I'll have a look when I get a chance.

Bill, is his name really Merlin?

Nah, it's what I call him, it just as well could be tho' can't give you his contact as he asks his customers not to, I have to respect that, and he is a good friend. Where are you located?

 

[StarCruiser]

I'm down on the south coast at Bognor. I just thought it was an excellent name.

It's ok, I have people down here that I can use but prefer to do the work myself where I can.