Engine woes part 3

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Guest
The news is not so good and I'm back, cap-in-hand for more help and advice.
The shop took the head off today in the presence of the consultant engineer
and me.
The bolts were not marked with paint; when I asked about this the shop
manager said there was no need to do this and it wasn't in the FSM.
Could someone check the FSM for the correct head bolt sequence and
procedures please?
However, leaving that aside:
The head looks absolutely perfect, no sign of any cracks, no combustion gas
escape marking, no coolant in any of the pots. The face of the head is
absolutely flat, we checked it.
No sign of any visible cracks in the top of the block.
No sign of any marks on the gasket, not even the faintest scratch on the
fire rings.
In fact there was no sign of anything wrong at all!
The engineer has no ideas, he could see nothing wrong. He's going to write
me a report but he's already said it won't say anything untoward.
So what gives? What do I look for now?
Does anyone have a photo or hi-res diagram of a genuine FZJ head gasket that
they could email me or post up on here? The best resolution image possible
please. The only unknown left from my point of view is "is this the correct
gasket" and I can only tell if I compare the old one with a known correct
one.
Could someone send me a pic please?
Thanks again in advance.
Pete
 
G

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Guest
So;
Compression check was OK (or little high?)
No signs of blowning head gasket surfaces
Head and block true and flat
No cracks in head (how did you check it?)
No oil in coolant / coolant in oil
No coolant in bores
Re-reading the old emails, you stated initially when the engine was running
the coolant was being "pulsed" with the radiator cap off, was the radiator
actually being pressurised? This is checked by putting an "adaptor" cap and
a pressure gauge on the rad, if the coolant system is being pressurised the
pressure will be considerably over normal, in fact care has to be taken not
to let the pressure build too much if the head or gasket has failed.
Did the coolant get checked for exhaust gas contamination? Not something I
have ever need to do but quite a good test.
Wrong gasket doesn't seem too likely - I have seen a few gaskets that looked
wrong because they blocked waterways - usually it is done to improve coolant
flow, sometimes too many connections from the block to the head can "short
circuit" parts of the block.
Perhaps the garage made a mistake in thinking anything was wrong - might
just be the coolant system had some air trapped in the block?
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
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14:18
 
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<Malcolm wrote>
| Perhaps the garage made a mistake in thinking anything was wrong -
might
| just be the coolant system had some air trapped in the block?
As I recall it "blew the coolant out" which doesn't sound like an
air-lock to me... bubbles and gurgling yes, but not eviction!
I've been thinking about this too, and the only idea I've come up with
is an internal flaw in the new head casting that is not visible from
surface inspection.
The only way I can think of testing for this is to block all the coolant
holes in the head but one (ideally with rubber bungs, but I suppose
candle wax, blu-tack or assistants' fingers would do), and then to
pressurise the remaining one. Just blowing down it (or sucking) would
do. If the air leaks away then there is a flaw.
You'd need to repeat for each hole in turn unless you can identify what
is connected to what to shorten the process.
It sounds a bit low-tech, but I don't know of a better way of doing it.
I've no idea how head castings are made, but I guess it is some sort of
lost wax process, and that can leave voids and flaws.
Sorry, clutching at straws, but at least inexpensive to try.
Christopher ell
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Pete,
Any news on your engine?
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
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17:32
 
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G

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Apart from me sinking ever deeper into the slough of despair you mean?? ;-)
I don't really know what to do. I'm getting the head pressure tested again
just in case but if that comes back OK then what do I do?? My only options
are to have the engine removed and stripped and the block sent for crack
testing; this will cost me another =A3600 and if it is cracked then it's scrap
anyway. OTOH if it's not cracked then I can have another go at the garage.
Alternatively I can find a secondhand engine and fit that but I can't find
one anywhere.
To cap it all, work has been frenetic these last two weeks and my feet
haven't touched the ground. I don't have the time to do anything about the
truck.
I'm running in ever decreasing circles at the moment!
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Malcolm Bagley
Sent: 27 June 2007 08:18
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Engine woes part 3
Pete,
Any news on your engine?
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
 
G

Guest

Guest
Pete
If you decide to drop it let me know .as I have said I would do a deal
with the manual I have to get you by for now until you get a better one
Yours truly, ray
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 27 June 2007 10:16
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Engine woes part 3
Apart from me sinking ever deeper into the slough of despair you mean??
;-)
I don't really know what to do. I'm getting the head pressure tested
again
just in case but if that comes back OK then what do I do?? My only
options
are to have the engine removed and stripped and the block sent for crack
testing; this will cost me another =A3600 and if it is cracked then it's
scrap
anyway. OTOH if it's not cracked then I can have another go at the
garage.
Alternatively I can find a secondhand engine and fit that but I can't
find
one anywhere.
To cap it all, work has been frenetic these last two weeks and my feet
haven't touched the ground. I don't have the time to do anything about
the
truck.
I'm running in ever decreasing circles at the moment!
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On
Behalf Of Malcolm Bagley
Sent: 27 June 2007 08:18
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Engine woes part 3
Pete,
Any news on your engine?
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
 
G

Guest

Guest
You have forgotten about mine and Ray's (over) generous offers already?
I must have missed the email about your getting the head pressure tested the
first time, who did it, how and what pressure?
I am awaiting my leakdown tester and you are most welcome to give that a go
when it arrives (should be shortly).
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
mean??
it's
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17:32
 
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Malcolm and Ray
If I could find a decent (or any) secondhand engine then I'd fit that but I
can't find one anywhere. The truck is currently stuck at the garage with the
engine in bits.
The pressure test was done by Phoenix engine services of Wolverhampton. At
what pressure I don't know - I assumed all head testing was at the same
pressure, some sort of standard test?? I don't know.
It's a gamble now - do I spend another =A3600 to find out whether the block is
cracked or not? If it's not then I can clobber the garage but if it is than
there's another =A3600 down the pan.
Thanks for the offer Ray but manual and cloth upholstery doesn't really do
it for me. I'll bear it in mind all the same but whatever happens I'd keep
the current truck for spares.
If I could find a good auto / leather diesel, or a VERY good petrol I'd go
for that.
Pete
 
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Guest

Guest
Pete
Have you ever thought about swapping the interior over ?
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]
On Behalf Of Peter Browning
Sent: 27 June 2007 10:47
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Engine woes part 3
Malcolm and Ray
If I could find a decent (or any) secondhand engine then I'd fit that
but I
can't find one anywhere. The truck is currently stuck at the garage with
the
engine in bits.
The pressure test was done by Phoenix engine services of Wolverhampton.
At
what pressure I don't know - I assumed all head testing was at the same
pressure, some sort of standard test?? I don't know.
It's a gamble now - do I spend another =A3600 to find out whether the
block is
cracked or not? If it's not then I can clobber the garage but if it is
than
there's another =A3600 down the pan.
Thanks for the offer Ray but manual and cloth upholstery doesn't really
do
it for me. I'll bear it in mind all the same but whatever happens I'd
keep
the current truck for spares.
If I could find a good auto / leather diesel, or a VERY good petrol I'd
go
for that.
Pete
 
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Guest
I don't have the time Ray - just finding time for normal servicing plus
family and all the other day to day crap is a big challenge for me.
Besides, it would still be manual.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Ray Dadd
Sent: 27 June 2007 10:42
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Engine woes part 3
Pete
Have you ever thought about swapping the interior over ?
 
G

Guest

Guest
I know Ray, I wasn't decrying your suggestions but whichever way I turn
there seems to be a roadblock in the way!
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Ray Dadd
Sent: 27 June 2007 11:08
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Engine woes part 3
It was just a thought Pete. As to help you with your dilemma
 
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Guest
Peter,
My leak down tester has arrived in the UK, hope to pick it up Friday. If
it's any use I would be happy to loan it to you. Had an idea that if the
head were bolted on without the cam shaft so all the valves were all closed
you could test each cylinder with the piston at BDC.
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
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15:35
 
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Guest

Guest
Leak down test is slightly different to a compression test. There are two
ways the test can be done but for both an air compressor is used to
pressurise the cylinder to perhaps 100 psi.
For testers with a single gauge when the desired pressure is reached the air
supply valve is closed and you can watch the air leak away, slow leak is
good, fast leak bad.
For testers with two gauges and a pressure regulator the regulator is set to
say 100 psi, the second gauge measures the pressure in the cylinder, if
there is no leakage the pressure will be the same on both gauges.
A small leak is normal, if the leak is bad with a lot of air moving then it
is sometimes possible to detect where the leak is, this makes the test more
useful than a compression test.
If the leak is into the crankcase - worn bores, or is a bad leak broken
rings (very bad, hole in piston).
If the leak is into the coolant - head gasket, cracked head or cracked block
If the leak is into the inlet - inlet valve stuck open or broken
If the leak is into the exhaust - exhaust valve stuck open or broken
Mostly used for petrols, I suppose the test could be carried out on a diesel
if you adapted a glow plug to connect the tester?
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
No virus found in this outgoing message.
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Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/887 - Release Date: 05/07/2007
13:55
 
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Guest
Hi Malcolm
Sorry about the delay in replying; for various reasons my feet haven't
touched the ground these past few days.
The engine is currently in bits so the tester is not much use to me at the
moment. Thanks for offering though.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]] On
Behalf Of Malcolm Bagley
Sent: 04 July 2007 21:00
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Engine woes part 3
Peter,
My leak down tester has arrived in the UK, hope to pick it up Friday. If
it's any use I would be happy to loan it to you. Had an idea that if the
head were bolted on without the cam shaft so all the valves were all closed
you could test each cylinder with the piston at BDC.
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
 
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