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front differential
- Thread starter nikimiki
- Start date
Yes, looks like it is. Part number (subject to exact confirmation) looks like 43403-35030 Same both sides. You will need more than just that, there are little clips etc which are pennies. But that's the main part. Do remember that sitting here I can't give an accurate diagnosis only advice on what it is most likely to be. It's a bit like ringing you doctor and saying my leg hurts, what do you think it is? Unless he know that there is a dog with its teeth round your ankle, it's going to be a bit vague.
But we are here to help. If the diff is OK and I suspect it should be, none of this is rocket engineering.
If you don't know a spanner from a strawberry then this is going to look pretty daunting.
Chris
This might help
But we are here to help. If the diff is OK and I suspect it should be, none of this is rocket engineering.
If you don't know a spanner from a strawberry then this is going to look pretty daunting.
Chris
This might help
Right, I am off to bed, but here's a pic of the diff. Everything that is in the diagram is inside the picture that I posted of the diff on my drive. The only other piece which might have gone is the shaft with the orange box around the part id. That's the drive shaft extension that I mentioned. Depends if the wobble is driver's side or passenger. Truth is Niki that these cars are starting to get to the point where they can be classed as 'quite old' and being Toyotas, not much has gone wrong with them. Recently we seem to have had one or two problems with front diffs. I would dare bet that this is simply a wear out failure associated with the 90 series reaching that age.
Not common, until now perhaps.
Chris
Not common, until now perhaps.
Chris
thanks chris
the picture of the diff has really helped.
part 41204d is the part that is definately the wibbily wobbily part.
what is your thoughts on that.
a great big thank you for all your help you have been brilliant and everybody else who has helped has been great too. i will maybe sleep tonight without having nightmares of the poor dragonwagon costing me small fortune to put back on the road.
the picture of the diff has really helped.
part 41204d is the part that is definately the wibbily wobbily part.
what is your thoughts on that.
a great big thank you for all your help you have been brilliant and everybody else who has helped has been great too. i will maybe sleep tonight without having nightmares of the poor dragonwagon costing me small fortune to put back on the road.
41204d????
Right, we haven't been on the same page here. That is the companion flange. This connects the front prop to the main pinion. That's the long thing in the diag that looks like a sink plunger. It might be the the bearing has collapsed. Or maybe there is a problem inside the diff.
Niki this does change the stakes I'm afraid. This is not the problem that we were discussing previously. I think that you point about the mechanic saying that the prop was fine has thrown us there.
OK, if it is that, then I would suggest swapping the whole diff - probably. Splitting the diff and putting new bits in is expensive and pretty specialised. Given just how robust and long lived Colorado front diffs are, you'd be unlikely to be buying a poor one. As we know, Karl has one for sale at any rate. I still think that this needs further diagnosis before leaping in but if the torpid joints are not wobbly then the issue clearly is at the input end. If the prop is ok, then I am not sure what has gone. It might be worth pulling the companion flange to see if the splines have simply gone on there at which point that is a really easy fix. If the matching splines on the pinion have gone - it's bin time. If it's the input shaft bearing, then I'm not sure that this can be changed in situ.
Hope you slept well. Sorry to change the picture this morning.
Chris
Right, we haven't been on the same page here. That is the companion flange. This connects the front prop to the main pinion. That's the long thing in the diag that looks like a sink plunger. It might be the the bearing has collapsed. Or maybe there is a problem inside the diff.
Niki this does change the stakes I'm afraid. This is not the problem that we were discussing previously. I think that you point about the mechanic saying that the prop was fine has thrown us there.
OK, if it is that, then I would suggest swapping the whole diff - probably. Splitting the diff and putting new bits in is expensive and pretty specialised. Given just how robust and long lived Colorado front diffs are, you'd be unlikely to be buying a poor one. As we know, Karl has one for sale at any rate. I still think that this needs further diagnosis before leaping in but if the torpid joints are not wobbly then the issue clearly is at the input end. If the prop is ok, then I am not sure what has gone. It might be worth pulling the companion flange to see if the splines have simply gone on there at which point that is a really easy fix. If the matching splines on the pinion have gone - it's bin time. If it's the input shaft bearing, then I'm not sure that this can be changed in situ.
Hope you slept well. Sorry to change the picture this morning.
Chris
hi chris
thank you for that. hubby just going to garage now to try and remove diff,but he is pretty certain the problem is input end. just to what extent damage is we wont know until its stripped.
thank you for your advice hopefully its not too bad.
will try to get some pics today and upload them later.
looks highly possible santa is going to have to bring me a diff.
thanks again will keep you updated
niki
thank you for that. hubby just going to garage now to try and remove diff,but he is pretty certain the problem is input end. just to what extent damage is we wont know until its stripped.
thank you for your advice hopefully its not too bad.
will try to get some pics today and upload them later.
looks highly possible santa is going to have to bring me a diff.
thanks again will keep you updated
niki
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Diff is pretty easy to take out. The only tip I'd give you is that you need to remove the companion flange (the bit you think is broken) as you simply can't get it through the gap in the front cross member. Certainly not on the SWB which I think is identical to the LWB. 5 mins work as opposed to hours of struggling to come to the same conclusion. If you go with a new diff, I would order the output seals to go with it. These will be worn to the old shafts there were in the donor vehicle and will probably leak when mated with yours.
Keep us informed and we'll help as much as we can. Pics are really helpful.
Chris
Keep us informed and we'll help as much as we can. Pics are really helpful.
Chris
Hi
Following last weekend's outing, my LC is in the shop with a front transmission problem (cv, drive shaft or diff???) Unfortunately, because of Christmas, the garage won't be looking at it before the first week of January, so its going to be a while before I know what the damage is.
I too am fearing the worst
cheers
Following last weekend's outing, my LC is in the shop with a front transmission problem (cv, drive shaft or diff???) Unfortunately, because of Christmas, the garage won't be looking at it before the first week of January, so its going to be a while before I know what the damage is.
I too am fearing the worst cheers
I think there's a good chance your problem is stripped splines on the drive shaft and drive flange or a blown CV rather than a broken diff Reinhard.
Hard to call, but being there at the time - standing next to it, it certainly didn't sound like ring and pinion. Nowhere near enough thrash to blow that and there was a distinct 'pop' when it went. Both inner boots were off, with grease everywhere. The torpid things were both floppy. One really quite badly, the other still engaged on the c clip for sure. It did sound like splines though and this may explain forward drive but not reverse.
Chris
Chris
hi karl
sorry not been online for a few days been in bed with the flu.
not much has been happening with my cruiser.
it is definately the front diff that is caput and i was wondering if you still had the diff available and how much you were wanting for it.
niki
sorry not been online for a few days been in bed with the flu.
not much has been happening with my cruiser.
it is definately the front diff that is caput and i was wondering if you still had the diff available and how much you were wanting for it.
niki
Hi Niki, out of interest, what has actually gone in the diff? Have you ascertained that yet? The flange at the back is connected to a pretty heavy duty shaft and it's unlikely that this would break. There are a lot of 90 owners out there I think who would be interested to hear what has happened. You may be seeing the early signs of a failure in the 90 drive train that others would wish to avoid. Was there any particular incident associated with it going wrong? Has hubby got the diff off the vehicle yet?
Regards
Chris
Regards
Chris
hi chris , the rather heavy duty shaft you mention behind the flange IS BROKEN, we dont know what actually
happened when it broke as a friend was driving the lc at the time.the weather wasnt great and he borrowed the lc to go to work the road conditions would have been terrible,but instead of getting the dragonwagon vack we got a phone call to say it wouldnt move there was smoke coming from it and the smell of oil..i was gutted.the recovery driver told him the brakes had seized but i feered the worst as it was fine the day before. hubby has taken the prop shaft off the front diff , the flange thats on the diff end now wobbles up and down side to side in and out , he tried to turn the flange but its not meshing with anything , its just like trying 2 put 2 well worn parts together with bits missing in the middle. the dragon wagon has only done 87,000 miles and has never been off road and when we bought it 2 years ago ther was only 74,000 miles on the clock and the engine looks brand new.
i hope this helps
niki
happened when it broke as a friend was driving the lc at the time.the weather wasnt great and he borrowed the lc to go to work the road conditions would have been terrible,but instead of getting the dragonwagon vack we got a phone call to say it wouldnt move there was smoke coming from it and the smell of oil..i was gutted.the recovery driver told him the brakes had seized but i feered the worst as it was fine the day before. hubby has taken the prop shaft off the front diff , the flange thats on the diff end now wobbles up and down side to side in and out , he tried to turn the flange but its not meshing with anything , its just like trying 2 put 2 well worn parts together with bits missing in the middle. the dragon wagon has only done 87,000 miles and has never been off road and when we bought it 2 years ago ther was only 74,000 miles on the clock and the engine looks brand new.
i hope this helps
niki
Ahh. That's not good. It could still be that all that has happened is that the splines have been stripped off the inside of the flange. But whatever the damage, I would say that it is consistent with an enormous force being put through the front diff, where the wheels have been unable to spin. I find the story of brakes seizing, unlikely, but in theory, stopping the front wheels under load has the potential to inflict damage to the front diff I guess. Usually, any intolerable load on the front, results in the drive being directed away somewhere else to relieve the torque. But if there was huge weight on the front end that prevented that torque from spinning out, it might do something nasty. I blew up my back diff in exactly this way.
Karl will be along I am sure. Just had a mail from him tonight. Please keep us all informed. We feel your pain, I assure you!!!
CHris
Karl will be along I am sure. Just had a mail from him tonight. Please keep us all informed. We feel your pain, I assure you!!!
CHris
hi chris
thanks for that, thats what i was thinking ,our mate wont admit to doing anything with dragon,but everything i have read on this forum suggested there had to be enormous force through the diff but me being a mere woman doesnt fully understand load strains and torque.(but i am learning)
hubby reckons mate has been playing with gears would this coz the problem,the other thing hubby has just asked me to ask you is,when dragon is in normal drive it it 50/50 wether she will go into reverse ,but if you put her in H and reverse she will go.(any ideas)
will keep ou informed as to what is happening as you are being so helpful and your kind words mean a lot.
niki
thanks for that, thats what i was thinking ,our mate wont admit to doing anything with dragon,but everything i have read on this forum suggested there had to be enormous force through the diff but me being a mere woman doesnt fully understand load strains and torque.(but i am learning)
hubby reckons mate has been playing with gears would this coz the problem,the other thing hubby has just asked me to ask you is,when dragon is in normal drive it it 50/50 wether she will go into reverse ,but if you put her in H and reverse she will go.(any ideas)
will keep ou informed as to what is happening as you are being so helpful and your kind words mean a lot.
niki
Hi Niki, not sure I quite understand the question. Firstly is it an auto or a manual?
Getting either into reverse would be very hard whilst going forward. On a manual, I'd say almost impossible UNLESS you put it into reverse whist not moving, rolled forward and then let the clutch up. That would be terrible. But you couldn't do it whilst moving.
On the auto, you'd have to press in the button on the shift lever. I don't think that it would let you get it into reverse, but I have never tried it. So we need an auto savvy person to answer this one. Jon - any wisdom?
As to your question about normal drive and H, well H is normal drive. Did you mean H and then HL? H is normal and then HL is normal with the middle diff lock engaged. Getting it into reverse whilst moving wouldn't really be any different in either case, as outlined above. BUT if you placed extra load on the drive train, then being in HL could have significant differences depending on what the vehicle was doing at the time. It allows less 'slippage' for the axles etc and does place extra strain on the components. Normally when you drive you are going forwards. OK, when you accelerate you get pushed backwards, yes? This is about 'weight transfer'. Well this usually means that the front wheels effectively feel lighter and they can spin. When you brake, you get the opposite. What we need to understand is the combination of what happened and under what forces the drive train was placed. Going forwards, then getting into reverse would be a catastrophic combination.
All academic though I suppose as it's broken and that's that. But as I said previously, you are very very very unlikely to get a bad front diff from a scrap 90 to go on yours.
Crispin, just read that about wind up. The answer is always, well it might have, but the weak point is the half shaft, not the drive really. And if one wheel can spin, all the spare energy goes out that way. The only way a front can't spin is if it is under extreme load and grip such as braking. Or going backwards. LCs are not prone to wind up. Why, because they are beautifully designed and made. There has been lots of talk about wind up and most is piffle in my view. Huge problem on sloppy badly made, 4x4 systems without proper centre transfer boxes. But on LC's? Not really. Of course there are degrees of wind up, but not the sort where you have to jack a wheel up off the ground to get it released.
Lockers not engaging etc it's wind up, it's mild misalignment.
Chris
Getting either into reverse would be very hard whilst going forward. On a manual, I'd say almost impossible UNLESS you put it into reverse whist not moving, rolled forward and then let the clutch up. That would be terrible. But you couldn't do it whilst moving.
On the auto, you'd have to press in the button on the shift lever. I don't think that it would let you get it into reverse, but I have never tried it. So we need an auto savvy person to answer this one. Jon - any wisdom?
As to your question about normal drive and H, well H is normal drive. Did you mean H and then HL? H is normal and then HL is normal with the middle diff lock engaged. Getting it into reverse whilst moving wouldn't really be any different in either case, as outlined above. BUT if you placed extra load on the drive train, then being in HL could have significant differences depending on what the vehicle was doing at the time. It allows less 'slippage' for the axles etc and does place extra strain on the components. Normally when you drive you are going forwards. OK, when you accelerate you get pushed backwards, yes? This is about 'weight transfer'. Well this usually means that the front wheels effectively feel lighter and they can spin. When you brake, you get the opposite. What we need to understand is the combination of what happened and under what forces the drive train was placed. Going forwards, then getting into reverse would be a catastrophic combination.
All academic though I suppose as it's broken and that's that. But as I said previously, you are very very very unlikely to get a bad front diff from a scrap 90 to go on yours.
Crispin, just read that about wind up. The answer is always, well it might have, but the weak point is the half shaft, not the drive really. And if one wheel can spin, all the spare energy goes out that way. The only way a front can't spin is if it is under extreme load and grip such as braking. Or going backwards. LCs are not prone to wind up. Why, because they are beautifully designed and made. There has been lots of talk about wind up and most is piffle in my view. Huge problem on sloppy badly made, 4x4 systems without proper centre transfer boxes. But on LC's? Not really. Of course there are degrees of wind up, but not the sort where you have to jack a wheel up off the ground to get it released.
Lockers not engaging etc it's wind up, it's mild misalignment.
Chris
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