Getting the best from your hand brake

[Chris]

And I will give it about two minutes off road before it doesn't work again. Just what the hell happens to the brake adjustment? We have two threads running on this question now. All theories welcome. Can the adjuster cog really undo itself and if so, then why?

Chris

 

[Paul]

Are the 90 and 80 handbrakes the same then?

 

[sae70]

Are the 90 and 80 handbrakes the same then?

I have no idea I've only rescently met up with the 90 hand brake myself but have never seen an 80 one Chris is the best placed to answer this one for sure

 

[Chris]

From what I can see, there are pretty much identical. I don't know if they share any components at all, but the 90 is descended from the 80 in many other parts. I don't like the fact that it's a single cable to one side that is then slaved off to the other wheel. I'd prefer two cables from the handbrake lever, through a balancer, then on to each wheel. The slaved, driver side is the one that tends to suffer more from wear and scrunge in the moving bits. Which is odd given that it's not the kerb side one that runs in the gutter. I tend to adjust the nearside one first and then the driver side. I might try doing it the other way around next time and see if it makes a difference, It shouldn't. On the bell crank there is a hole with a pin that goes through it. Any wear in those is magnified in movement in the lever inside the cabin. There is no bush in them. Just metal on metal. It is this slack that you are taking up when you adjust the little screws outside at the back of the drum. I am going to need some longer threads in a bit as I am running out of adjustment!

Chris

 

[sae70]

.............................................Just what the hell happens to the brake adjustment? ................................. All theories welcome. Can the adjuster cog really undo itself and if so, then why

Ah well here's a theory then When I stripped Fiery's hand brake drums down for the refurb & adjust not only was the cable not conected to the actuator lever on the near side & the black & green springs in the opposite orientation to the one suggested as correct by BlackWidow but the spring that is susposed to hold the adjuster cog/bottle screw in place on my off side adjuster was hardley touching the cog let alone holding it & when compared to the near side one was installed in a completely different way

This spring fits into a pressed out hook/staple on the back/bottom of each brake shoe & depending upon what side of each hook/staple & what way around you fit the spring it either completely misses the cog (as I found on Fiery) or makes really good contact into the hollow of the cogs pitch And if you are brave enough to give the shanks a bit of a twist & shape the it can be made to fit really really well

Maybe this is part of the problem

 

[Paul]

If it is the cog coming undone how about some ptfe tape on the threads?

 

[Chris]

I don't see how the cog can come undone - I know I mentioned it, because it's the item that makes that particular adjustment happen. It's actually quite stiff in the first place due to the shoes. But what I think we need to see if what happens when the rear end flexes. The brake is on the axle and the lever is on the body. So off road, there is movement between the two. I think that this is doing something in the system. OR, he says, it's something to do with mud. They are the two key interference factors as I see it. So if you go off road somewhere dry and the brake still disappears then it must be movement. Eh?

Chris

 

[chris lc90]

Kalaspera Chris. Hope you are well.

I don't think that you will get much corrosion of metal with brake fluid. It lives in metal pipes of course. But it is damaging to paintwork and possibly the lacquer on alloy wheels.

I am confused though. What are you going to open again and grease? Your diff or your brakes? Or did you mean corrosion in the end of the axle? I think that corrosion there is due to water pooling in the bottom of the seal.



Chris

kalispera chris..
the
alloys pieces that have already corrosion to the photos..these i wanted to check but they are in good condition..

 

[Andrew Prince]

Re: Who is doing what maintenance today?

{admin edit(cp)}

As far as maintenance goes, I spent a few hours on Friday and yesterday doing battle with the handbrake on my 80. I think Mr T had a student from Solihull doing an internship in his design shop when the handbrake system was designed. What amazes me most is that drum brake technology is not exactly a recent development, so why couldn't Toyota use a more recent and PROVEN design? Bloody complicated for its level of efficiency...
Anyway, I had the curse of the offside brake playing silly buggers. It's working sort of but not perfect and I cannot see why not - everything is clean and adjusted, appropriately greased with red brake grease but the rear shoe does not move/articulate properly. Oh well, hopefully it gets through the MOT and I have another year before I need to think about it again

 

[Chris]

Re: Who is doing what maintenance today?

Andrew, did you follow my 'How to get the best from your handbrake thread?'

One of the rubbish bits is that the DS slaves off the PS bell crank. I think a twin cable system conversion is called for. You only get, at best, at the DS shoes what you get at the NS and as there are losses in the system, the DS is always going to be poorer.

I have just reset the one on my new 80. Key points (or pissing around, as I call) involve setting it once, then driving the car a short way pulling on the brake gently on forward and reverse. This will 'cut' the shoes in and get them centralised.

Then you go back to the adjuster cog and wind the shoes out hard against the drum.. Then set the limiter bolt on the crank on the other side of the brake shield. Then back off the cog one click or until it frees the drum. Then you should have a top handbrake.

That stupid cross wire with the spring along it, tends to seize up on the end of the bell crank clevis pin. This can take an hour of wiggling to get it back to life.

There is an order to the top springs as I understand it. I don't know which way around they go and how to tell them apart, but they are different. And, it seems, that matters. I will try to sort that detail at some point.

Mine's pretty good after a good fettle

Chris

 

[Scott]

Re: Who is doing what maintenance today?

Nick - very sorry to hear that, hope they recover well. Were they in the land cruiser? Round this way bikers are regarded as organ donors.

There is an order to the top springs as I understand it. I don't know which way around they go and how to tell them apart, but they are different. And, it seems, that matters. I will try to sort that detail at some

Chris

Here's a pic of my offside handbrake, it shows the black spring to the front and the green spring to the rear:

That's how they were orientated when I stripped it, and I also found info on here that confirms their position.

Cheers.

 

[Andrew Prince]

Re: Who is doing what maintenance today?

Andrew, did you follow my 'How to get the best from your handbrake thread?'

Indeed I did! I didn't try your idea of driving along applying the handbrake and then having a final adjustment. I will resort to that if the MOT tester isn't wowed by my efforts so far
Agreed on the stupidity of having offside slaved and then the rear shoe slaved on the forward one. No wonder the rear shoe barely moves.

With the brake all put together and reconnecting the h/brake cable, the limiter bolt is flush against the dust cover when the cable is slack but as soon as I tighten up the h/brake cable at the h/brake lever, the bell crank moves and the adjuster bolt is probably 20-25mm from the dust cover I.e. the system is under tension from the cable and is fighting the bellcrank springs. The nearside one sits flush quite happily. Note that this is not winding the h/brake adjuster up as tight as it will go - it's merely putting some tension in the system doing the nuts up with my fingers... Any ideas? Should I push the limiter bolt out further to almost contact the dust cover?

Logic suggests that the situation as I have should mean the O/S brake is engaging but it's not... Maybe I should play with the star wheel adjuster with the h/brake cable connected?
This might be one to fiddle with at Lincomb with all the gurus available

Yip, correct, Scott - I have the same orientation of springs

 

[Chris]

Re: Who is doing what maintenance today?

Andrew. Tighten shoes against the drum, then pull the bell crank away until it stops, then adjust the screw out to take up that slack. Then you back the cog off. This way, all of the slack has been taken out of the system. I then put a couple of click on the hand brake lever - maybe 3, then I screw the nut down by the lever until the brakes start to bite. So, when I fully release the lever, the brakes will be fully off.

C

 

[Andrew Prince]

Re: Who is doing what maintenance today?

Ah Ok, I'm with you - so everything is tensioned up (with the h/brake cable off or slack) and and braked, and then back off the brakes by loosening the star wheel!

Off to see the MOT place shortly, so we'll see if I'm whipping wheels off later.....

 

[Chris]

Re: Who is doing what maintenance today?

That's it. Or otherwise, all you ad doing it taking up slack when you pull the lever. and once the master side brake is on full, it can't pull the slave side any more! When I can, I try to give the slave side a tiny bit of a bias. That way it gets a head start on the other one.

Chris

 

[sae70]

I hope that this will be of future use to someone

When I first bought Fiery the hand brake was less than bad @ its best When I was brave enough to strip it all down & have a blast with Chris's most excellent explanation upon how best to set up your hand brake, I discovered that the near side cable was completely detached from the lever on the rear of the brake shoe, as though it had become unclipped So I went ahead & set up the hand brake as per Chris's procedure after fitting a new set of shoes & reconnecting the cable, giving the retaining spring a little stretch before hand. Anyways I must have set up my hand brake a couple of times since then & was about to do the same just prior to the Lincomb weekend when I pulled up my hand brake I almost pulled it out through the roof It felt as though the main cable had snapped as I pulled it up When I got around to stripping it all down to locate & repair the fault I found that the near side cable had become detached from the lever on the rear of the shoe again

You can see it in this photo just laying @ the bottom of the drum backing plate

So I stripped it all down again

Had another good look @ the cable & spring

I stretched the spring again & popped it all back together All has been well since, but I guess that either the cable has become stretched or the spring is tiered & not capable of holding the nipple into the cup on the operating lever when the hand brake is released. Either way I guess in the long term I will have to replace it for a new one @ some point

I thought that I'd add my findings here in case it's of help to anyone else in the future

I'll let you know if I ever get around to replacing the cable & spring for a new one

 

[BlackWidow]

BlackWidow said

Will keep you posted on my progress and testing.

Any progress then

My hand brake is shocking Even though it all looks as if Fiery's previouse owner was on top of his maintenance looking @ these pics

Guess I'll be getting me hands dirty then

Well then guys, I am still working on this but today I think that I am getting closer. One of the big problems that I have found is that when the hand brake is applied you use all the cable. Which is why I am using these photos from steve as you can clearly see this.

Today I fitted some shims into the top actuator bar thus extending it by 2mm and this made a huge difference to the cable usage and gave me a noticeably reduction in cable pull. I think that I may need to go another 2mm to take real advantage but in doing this will mean that the brake shoes will have very little to purchase on.

Next time I am off work for a few days I will remove one of the bars and take it round my local engineering firm and ask them to cut me some new ones at 4, 5 and 6mm longer and see how they work.

Steve

 

[Chris Green90]

Sorry to drag up an old thread But...

https://www.allprooffroad.com/pickupbrakeupgrades/33

A possible solution perhaps

Chris

 

[BobMurphy]

Sorry to drag up an old thread But...

https://www.allprooffroad.com/pickupbrakeupgrades/33

A possible solution perhaps

Chris

That is just re-inventing the Landrover parking brake - though a disk is better than the drum brake on a LR.

They are very effective but if you try to stop the truck while its rolling you can break the half shafts.

MOT testing cannot be done on a rolling road for that reason. When I had an LR it was tested out in the car park with a 'decelerometer' in the passenger footwell.

Bob.

 

[Chris]

As it is National Thread Resurrection day (in the REPUBLIC OF CONGO) I thought I'd add a foot note to this thread.

The springs that go at the top of the mechanism do indeed go in one way only. We have determined that whilst the colour usually wears off them over time, the stronger spring goes toward the front of the vehicle. They are easy to tell apart. Just try and bend them. You'll see.

Now I have been having handbrake hell this weekend and I can field strip the damn thing one handed whilst doing the Rubik's cube. I have polished and cleaned and greased and replaced and yet still with great feel to the mechanism, it just won't hold on a slope.

Finally this afternoon, I fathomed it. I pulled the shoes out and 'patterned' them against the inside of the disc drum. Ahh haaa. The curve of the friction lining didn't match the inside diameter of the drum. In effect it was just high spotting. So in a static set up it was all perfect but trying to hold a Cruiser on 37's it just wasn't enough. I did do the drag procedure as shown in the FSM but clearly this wasn't enough. I need to put a click on and drive up the motorway to somewhere like Newcastle and back. You can see on the shoes where it is touching and bedding in. So there's a lesson. Worn drums and new pads are not the best companions.

End of update