Rear Brake Load Sensing Valve Linkage - ceased

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Guys
Help/information required:
Anyone know about these kinds of things?
MOT vehicle today and failed on this (most serious of failures mthinks...) -
anyone know whether I can get it fixed or whether I need to buy a whole new
unit?
Toyo says the New Unit is ?146.69 and the Repair Kit approx ?63 (prices
include VAT).
Does anyone know of a cheaper supplier?
This is a bit where intuition says I go for the new toyo unit...but its
rather a lot to pay, but I guess I have, on this occasion at least, to pay
up.
Any comments? ideas? gratefully received/welcomed.
Regards
Renate
 
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Should be a simple device, you might be able to free the link that operates
it, they tend to be a springy arm so they can cope with a lot of deflection
past the operating point. I have seen some that have a coil in the middle.
The pivot might just be ceased.
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
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18:51
 
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Malc
Why would it cost so much then? for a new part? if its a simple device?
is it another case of toyo wanting to maximise profit...
I asked about the Repair Kit and the recommendation was I buy the new unit
in preference - I've never even seen this kind of unit so have no idea what
it looks like...still a novice when it comes to all things "technical"...
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed] [mailto:[Email address removed]]On
Behalf Of Malcolm Bagley
Sent: 23 August 2007 17:21
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: RE: [ELCO] Rear Brake Load Sensing Valve Linkage - ceased
Should be a simple device, you might be able to free the link that operates
it, they tend to be a springy arm so they can cope with a lot of deflection
past the operating point. I have seen some that have a coil in the middle.
The pivot might just be ceased.
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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18:51
 
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Renate,
Without going to look (it's raining) it must be repairable. Most
of them are simple mechanical devises left in the elements.
Regards,
Clive Marks
Home: +44 1293 514600
Mobile: +44 7821 491897
Crawley, West Sussex, UK.
 
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Malcol
I've had a gander in my Haynes manual - seems such a simple device - you're
right, it ought to be repairable surely, and at no real cost?
The mechanic didn't say exactly where it had ceased, so I don't know unless
its taken off and had a good look at? but then I'd have needed to bleed the
whole system and adjust all the braking mechanisms?
Cheers
Renate
PS Its nice and sunny, and quite warm here...at last
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Clive Marks
Sent: 23 August 2007 18:03
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Rear Brake Load Sensing Valve Linkage - ceased
Renate,
Without going to look (it's raining) it must be repairable. Most
of them are simple mechanical devises left in the elements.
Regards,
Clive Marks
Home: +44 1293 514600
Mobile: +44 7821 491897
Crawley, West Sussex, UK.
 
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Guest
I also fail to see how they could test it on an MOT, so it must have
failed on a visual check. I don't know if it is a part of the MOT or
not.
On 23/08/07, Clive Marks <[Email address removed]> wrote:
--
Regards,
Clive Marks
Home: +44 1293 514600
Mobile: +44 7821 491897
Crawley, West Sussex, UK.
 
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Renate,
I am not quite sure why they should have failed you on the load
sensing proportioning and by-pass valve? If it were disconnected or
removed altogether it would not count, would it?
I wouldn't bother with a new valve assembly, unless it's completely
corroded. The repair kit will probably do the job. Setting the valve
requires two pressure gauges connected to the brake cicruit (one
front, one rear) so it's best left for a garage to do it.
Here's the procedure from the FSM:
CHECK AND ADJUSTMENT OF FLUID
PRESSURE
1. SET REAR AXLE LOAD
Rear axle load (include vehicle weight):
1,150 kg (2,535 Ib)
2. INSTALL LSPV GAUGE (SST) AND BLEED AIR
3. RAISE FRONT BRAKE PRESSURE TO 80 kg/cm2 (1,138
psi, 7,845 kPa) AND CHECK REAR BRAKE PRESSURE
Rear brake pressure:
45 =B1 6 kg/cm2 (640 =B1 85 psi, 4,413 =B1 588 kPa)
HINT: The brake pedal should not be depressed twice
and/or returned while setting to the specified pressure.
Read the value of rear brake pressure two seconds after
adjusting the specified fluid pressure.
4. IF NECESSARY, ADJUST FLUID PRESSURE
(a) Disconnect the No. 2 shackle from the shackle
bracket.
(b) Adjust the length of the No. 2 shackle turning it.
Low pressure =97 Lengthen A
High pressure =97 Shorten A
Initial set: 90 mm (3.54 in.)
Adjusting range: 84 =97 96 mm (3.31 =97 3.78 in.)
HINT: One turn of the No. 2 shackle changes the fluid
pressure about following specification.
1.0 kg/cm2 (14.2 psi, 98.1 kPa)
(c) In the event pressure cannot be adjusted by the No.
2 shackle, raise or lower the valve body.
Low pressure =97 Lower
High pressure =97 Raise
(d) Torque the nuts.
Torque: 130 kg-cm (9 ft-lb, 13 N-m)
(e) Adjust the length of the No. 2 shackle again.
If it cannot be adjusted, inspect the valve housing.
(f) Connect the No.2 shackle to the shackle bracket.
5. IF NECESSARY, CHECK VALVE BODY
(a) Assemble the valve body in the upper most position.
HINT: When the brakes are applied, the piston will move
down about 1 mm (0.04 in.). Even at this time, the piston
should not make contact with or move the load sensing
spring.
(b) In this position, check the rear brake pressure.
kg/cm2
Front brake pressure -10 kg/cm2
Rear brake pressure - 10 kg/cm2
Front brake pressure - 25 kg/cm2
Rear brake pressure - 11.8 - 15.8 kg/cm2
Front brake pressure - 60 kg/cm2
Rear brake pressure - 19 - 26 kg/cm2
If the measured value is not within standard, replace the
valve body.
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80 (auto)
On 8/23/07, Malcolm Bagley <[Email address removed]> wrote:
es
on
e.
7
 
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Clive
This is what I thought - but I can imagine that the MOT Test has somehow
become much more comprehensive and systematic (maybe for 16 year old
landcruisers? ;-) I would think it was on visual check only.
It failed on a couple of other things too - the 'recurrent' brake problems
(I say this because it ALWAYS fails on this - I have the brake system
checked at least three times a year, and the handbrake always needs
tightening), and lights being not up to the right level (aim too low).
Maybe I just don't brake enough, or hard enough...Or maybe I should have the
entire cable replaced? any suggestions?.
And something about Rear Parking Brake lever having no reserve travel, and
Parking Brake being below efficiency requirements.
No fail on emissions though - well within prescribed limits apparently; like
it was last year.
And some advisory comments about the springs, a bit of corrosion here and
there, and Nearside and Offside (easier to say passenger side and driver
side I would have thought) Front [nearside & offside] Track Rod End Ball
Joint with slight play.
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Clive Marks
Sent: 23 August 2007 18:21
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Rear Brake Load Sensing Valve Linkage - ceased
I also fail to see how they could test it on an MOT, so it must have
failed on a visual check. I don't know if it is a part of the MOT or
not.
On 23/08/07, Clive Marks <[Email address removed]> wrote:
--
Regards,
Clive Marks
Home: +44 1293 514600
Mobile: +44 7821 491897
Crawley, West Sussex, UK.
 
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Roman
Wow! seems a lot to do for someone who is about as inept as a snail...maybe
if I give these instructions to the garage they can do it all within an
hour? methinks they'd take one look at me and run a mile...
Wish I had all the gear, tools and expertise to do it myself.
Renate
 
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I had a VW van that was something like class VII, anyway I had to take it to
a large test centre which also tested the truck units. For the trucks they
had a loading device that pressed down on the back to simulate a load during
brake testing. I think that was to check the brake load control valve,
whole think scared me, I had just got the van fixed up and on the road with
bit from the scrap yard and was in with the "pros", you had to drive your
own vehicle through, operate the brakes while on the brake tester etc.
Don't suppose they did anything like that, but did you see the test result
for the brakes - could be the rear brakes weren't operating and they checked
the valve - also in the back of my mind I remember something about brakes
working differently in reverse, perhaps that's how they check it.
Malcolm Bagley
Stafford UK
FJ45 '75 & FJ45 '76
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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18:51
 
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Hi Renate,
As others have hinted I am extremely surprised that they have
highlighted the load sensing valve as being seized, unless your brakes
are really out of balance front/rear and they tried to adjust it.
The valve regulates the Front/Rear brake split based on the load of the
vehicle - if you start changing the suspension it needs adjusting.
Any competant mechanic should be able to take it off and free it up -
they might need to strip it down and replace seals, but I suspect that
it most likely the adjustment arm that is seized - give it a good
soaking of WD40 for a few days and see what happens.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Hi Roman,
The other option is just to try a few emergency stops and see which
locks up first, the front or the rears, then adjust as appropriate.
It is well worth doing this prior to a trip when fully loaded and then
re-adjust on your return when you have skipped the car out.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Er yes.... With lots of Renault disclaimers!
Jeremy Llewellyn-Jones
Mob: 07831 458 793
--
 
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Hi,
The MOT station was supposed to test the brakes with the
accelerometer, not on rollers. I suspect Renate's brakes must have
been horribly out of balance, otherwise how the tester could have
spotted it?
--
Rgds,
Roman (London, UK)
'92 HDJ80 (auto)
 
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Hi Julian
A good soaking it will get then! before approaching the toyo garage again.
Yet about two weeks ago I asked them to check all the brakes/components and
the report came back all was in order...methinks that 1) they didn't do it
properly or 2) missed this bit completely...
The RBLSVL was last adjusted when I upgraded the suspension a few years
ago - the guy who did it was a 4x4 mechanic, he did other work at the time
for me too, so would have known about things like this. He'd known the
vehicle from the beginning, when I bought it from a Welsh farmer back in
2000 (their garage was the original dealership who sold the farmer the 80 in
the first place)
Cheers
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Julian Voelcker
Sent: 24 August 2007 00:01
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Rear Brake Load Sensing Valve Linkage - ceased
Hi Renate,
As others have hinted I am extremely surprised that they have
highlighted the load sensing valve as being seized, unless your brakes
are really out of balance front/rear and they tried to adjust it.
The valve regulates the Front/Rear brake split based on the load of the
vehicle - if you start changing the suspension it needs adjusting.
Any competant mechanic should be able to take it off and free it up -
they might need to strip it down and replace seals, but I suspect that
it most likely the adjustment arm that is seized - give it a good
soaking of WD40 for a few days and see what happens.
--
Regards,
Julian Voelcker
Skype: julianvoelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom
1994 HDJ80, 2.5" OME Lift
 
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Malcolm
I haven't seen the test result for the brakes. There is another issue with
the rear brakes so I guess it might be connected
You wrote "did you see the test result for the brakes - could be the rear
brakes weren't operating and they checked
the valve - also in the back of my mind I remember something about brakes
working differently in reverse, perhaps that's how they check it"
Cheers
Renate
 
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Guest

Guest
Renate,
If you had the brake system checked at the garage that did the
MOT then you have a right to have an issue with the garage for
incompetence.
Regards,
Clive Marks
Home: +44 1293 514600
Mobile: +44 7821 491897
Crawley, West Sussex, UK.
 
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Clive
Yes I did.
I'll ring them after I've sent this email
Regards
Renate
-----Original Message-----
From: [Email address removed]
[mailto:[Email address removed]]On Behalf Of Clive Marks
Sent: 24 August 2007 13:40
To: [Email address removed]
Subject: Re: [ELCO] Rear Brake Load Sensing Valve Linkage - ceased
Renate,
If you had the brake system checked at the garage that did the
MOT then you have a right to have an issue with the garage for
incompetence.
Regards,
Clive Marks
Home: +44 1293 514600
Mobile: +44 7821 491897
Crawley, West Sussex, UK.
 
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Guest

Guest
Hi,
I just purchased a KZJ70 that failed its MOT due to the brake linkage has
seized and the LSPV was leaking around the valve.
Maybe that's why it failed?
Mine needed new linkage and an LSPV to get it through the MOT.
Martin.
 
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